3 ms·

What’s a little strange, however, is how little archaeological evidence of torture in the past has been found so far. Archaeologists have found evidence of viol

by p1esk 4y ago

What’s a little strange, however, is how little archaeological evidence of torture in the past has been found so far. Archaeologists have found evidence of violence between humans dating back to the Paleolithic, but the Milanese wheel victim is one of very few clear cases of actual torture, despite how often torture is mentioned in historical records beginning in ancient times.

NL807 4y ago
Perhaps extreme torture wasn't all that common after all, and was applied only in exceptional circumstances. Literature mentioning torture often could be attributed to people's morbid fascination with subject, just like society is right now.
- WHATDOESIT 4y ago
  Nah, it was totally common, at least in Europe - and way past medieval ages. Come to Czechia and visit literally any random castle - there's archeological evidence of brutal torture at practically every single one (and there are dozens/hundreds). There are rooms and rooms full of original torture instruments as well as marks of usage on them. Every castle has at least the "hladomorna" - a deep pit where they threw a person and then forgot about them until they died of starvation. Very extensive torture dungeons with elaborate machinery are usual too. And the books that mention it are less literature and more administrative records.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    > Nah, it was totally common, at least in Europe - and way past medieval ages. Reading about Ukraine and what’s being found in liberated towns, it’s not hard to agree.
    - WHATDOESIT 4y ago
      Well, the 20th century communist torture chambers are a sight in its own class. The Nazi ones too, of course - but the communists had 40 years to do their shit.
    - trhway 4y ago
      That is what found. It seems it is only a part as FSB widely practices electric shock torture for example, so not many traces left on otherwise reasonably looking bodies (also mobile crematoriums are in use there, so not much is going to be found in many cases at all, especially after Bucha as they know that Ukraine may take the territories back - the option the Russians in Bucha and everywhere else seem to have been dismissing back then in March).
  - paganel 4y ago
    Even during the late 1700s the enlightened Habsburgs were still using breaking on the wheel for some of their public executions. Case in point the Romanian revolt of Horea, Cloșca and Crișan [1], in 1784-85. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_Horea,_Clo%C8%99ca_and_Cri%C8%99an#The_revolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_Horea,_Clo%C8%99ca_a...
    - WHATDOESIT 4y ago
      Indeed - even the late 18th century national revival romanticists thought it's important to create a special word in the language for each of the hundreds of different kinds of torture instruments and ways of torture.
trhway 4y ago
The executed people, especially when brutally for supposedly very serious crimes, would frequently not get a proper burial. Their bodies or various pieces of them were put on pikes and into cages for display (and consumption by birds, etc.), burnt (all the "witches" after extreme torture they were subjected to), sent to different places as a message, etc. An example of the numbers https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-killer-king-how-many-people-did-henry-viii-execute https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-killer-king-how-many-p... " It is estimated that during his 36 years of rule over England he executed up to 57,000 people, many of whom were either members of the clergy or ordinary citizens and nobles who had taken part in uprisings and protests up and down the country." And those crimes above sound like high treason (many of those uprisings/protests were about that English church split and Henry treated wrong position on it as a treason against him) which back then was "hang, drawn and quarter" punishable crime.

by p1esk 4y ago

NL807 4y ago

Perhaps extreme torture wasn't all that common after all, and was applied only in exceptional circumstances. Literature mentioning torture often could be attributed to people's morbid fascination with subject, just like society is right now.

WHATDOESIT 4y ago
Nah, it was totally common, at least in Europe - and way past medieval ages. Come to Czechia and visit literally any random castle - there's archeological evidence of brutal torture at practically every single one (and there are dozens/hundreds). There are rooms and rooms full of original torture instruments as well as marks of usage on them. Every castle has at least the "hladomorna" - a deep pit where they threw a person and then forgot about them until they died of starvation. Very extensive torture dungeons with elaborate machinery are usual too. And the books that mention it are less literature and more administrative records.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  > Nah, it was totally common, at least in Europe - and way past medieval ages. Reading about Ukraine and what’s being found in liberated towns, it’s not hard to agree.
  - WHATDOESIT 4y ago
    Well, the 20th century communist torture chambers are a sight in its own class. The Nazi ones too, of course - but the communists had 40 years to do their shit.
  - trhway 4y ago
    That is what found. It seems it is only a part as FSB widely practices electric shock torture for example, so not many traces left on otherwise reasonably looking bodies (also mobile crematoriums are in use there, so not much is going to be found in many cases at all, especially after Bucha as they know that Ukraine may take the territories back - the option the Russians in Bucha and everywhere else seem to have been dismissing back then in March).
- paganel 4y ago
  Even during the late 1700s the enlightened Habsburgs were still using breaking on the wheel for some of their public executions. Case in point the Romanian revolt of Horea, Cloșca and Crișan [1], in 1784-85. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_Horea,_Clo%C8%99ca_and_Cri%C8%99an#The_revolt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_Horea,_Clo%C8%99ca_a...
  - WHATDOESIT 4y ago
    Indeed - even the late 18th century national revival romanticists thought it's important to create a special word in the language for each of the hundreds of different kinds of torture instruments and ways of torture.

trhway 4y ago

The executed people, especially when brutally for supposedly very serious crimes, would frequently not get a proper burial. Their bodies or various pieces of them were put on pikes and into cages for display (and consumption by birds, etc.), burnt (all the "witches" after extreme torture they were subjected to), sent to different places as a message, etc. An example of the numbers https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-killer-king-how-many-people-did-henry-viii-execute https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-killer-king-how-many-p... " It is estimated that during his 36 years of rule over England he executed up to 57,000 people, many of whom were either members of the clergy or ordinary citizens and nobles who had taken part in uprisings and protests up and down the country." And those crimes above sound like high treason (many of those uprisings/protests were about that English church split and Henry treated wrong position on it as a treason against him) which back then was "hang, drawn and quarter" punishable crime.