4 ms·

"Columbus did not reach India but he discovered something quite interesting." What's going to bake your noodle is whether he discovered anything at all.

by throw7 4y ago

ninkendo 4y ago
There are few useful definitions of “discover” that don’t apply to what Columbus did. Discover doesn’t have to mean you’re literally the first human to behold something…
- contravariant 4y ago
  Did he definitely know what he had found though? If you can discover something without knowing what it is then that opens up some interesting edge cases.
  - ninkendo 4y ago
    It’s only interesting if you’re interested in arbitrarily narrow, contrived definitions of words that everyone is already pretty clear on.
  - tharkun__ 4y ago
    According to Marriam Webster: Definition of discover transitive verb to make known or visible : EXPOSE to obtain sight or knowledge of for the first time : FIND Even in other sources for the definition it is not necessary to either be the first or to 'understand' much of what you found/did. You simply have to have done 'it'. He discovered America as in he found it for the first time for the 'western world' of that time. Whether he thought it was India or connected to it does not seem to matter. He still found it and even found it first as to the knowledge of the Europeans alive at that time. It does not seem to matter that other Europeans (vikings) had also discovered it previously. Or that Asians had discovered it and stayed on the continent (native Americans) Can you elaborate on what edge cases you mean and why that would be relevant?
- tialaramex 4y ago
  When I say "I discovered this great coffee place over by the river" it's apparent that I don't believe, and nor do I intend you to believe, that for example nobody else knew it was there, or even that none of your other friends knew it was there. But when people say the Columbus "discovered" America, what useful information is that conveying? Do millions of Europeans "discover" America every year and we just forgot to mention that? If I saw a photo of Haiti in a book, did I "discover America" ? What if I see video of somebody's vacation to New York but mistakenly believe it to be in Germany, did I just "discover America" even though I don't even know the literal continent of America exists? It is definitely not clear that Colombus ever realised he had set foot on a continent Europeans didn't previously realise existed. Maybe he knew this and pretended not to, or maybe he was too stupid to figure it out, we can't tell, it suited him better to have succeeded in finding a route to the East, by going West, which was definitely not what he'd actually done. His original plan literally doesn't work, but he got lucky.
  - not2b 4y ago
    A more accurate statement of his significance is that he started the European conquest of the Americas. That's the impact of what he did and distinguishes him from previous explorers (like Leif Ericsson) who stumbled onto the Americas earlier but didn't have a lasting impact.
golem14 4y ago
Cue Stan Freberg (do youself a favor and listen to the whole musical): """ Columbus: Hello there, hello there. We white men–other side of ocean. My name Christopher Columbus. Native: Oh? You over here on a Fulbright? Columbus: Huh? Uh, no,no, I’m over here on an Isabella, as a matter of fact. Which reminds me, I want to take a few of you guys back on the boat with me to prove I discovered you. Native: What you mean, you discover us? We discover you. Columbus: You discovered us? Native: Certainly. We discover you on beach here. Is all how you look at it. """
- LudwigNagasena 4y ago
  You can tell it’s written by an American because a guy (an Italian for an extra punchline) from 15th century mentions his “whiteness” for no reason whatsoever.
frozencell 4y ago
I think he was preceded by Norman navigators many times by the way.
- smegsicle 4y ago
  i think plants were actually the first to behold this great land
  - goatlover 4y ago
    I think fungi first crawled upon that great land.
nitwit005 4y ago
What Columbus discovered was that there was land to the West of Europe, along the route he took, which was not known at the time.
- cardamomo 4y ago
  "Was not known" by whom?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - nitwit005 4y ago
    Let me just reverse this, re-using my words. Who do you imagine knew "that there was land to the West of Europe, along the route he took"?
    - ahelwer 4y ago
      Wow, he sure gets a lot of clout - his name showing up in this internet thread half a millennium later - for an achievement with so many qualifiers!
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

"Columbus did not reach India but he discovered something quite interesting." What's going to bake your noodle is whether he discovered anything at all.

by throw7 4y ago

"Columbus did not reach India but he discovered something quite interesting." What's going to bake your noodle is whether he discovered anything at all.

ninkendo 4y ago

There are few useful definitions of “discover” that don’t apply to what Columbus did. Discover doesn’t have to mean you’re literally the first human to behold something…

contravariant 4y ago
Did he definitely know what he had found though? If you can discover something without knowing what it is then that opens up some interesting edge cases.
- ninkendo 4y ago
  It’s only interesting if you’re interested in arbitrarily narrow, contrived definitions of words that everyone is already pretty clear on.
- tharkun__ 4y ago
  According to Marriam Webster: Definition of discover transitive verb to make known or visible : EXPOSE to obtain sight or knowledge of for the first time : FIND Even in other sources for the definition it is not necessary to either be the first or to 'understand' much of what you found/did. You simply have to have done 'it'. He discovered America as in he found it for the first time for the 'western world' of that time. Whether he thought it was India or connected to it does not seem to matter. He still found it and even found it first as to the knowledge of the Europeans alive at that time. It does not seem to matter that other Europeans (vikings) had also discovered it previously. Or that Asians had discovered it and stayed on the continent (native Americans) Can you elaborate on what edge cases you mean and why that would be relevant?
tialaramex 4y ago
When I say "I discovered this great coffee place over by the river" it's apparent that I don't believe, and nor do I intend you to believe, that for example nobody else knew it was there, or even that none of your other friends knew it was there. But when people say the Columbus "discovered" America, what useful information is that conveying? Do millions of Europeans "discover" America every year and we just forgot to mention that? If I saw a photo of Haiti in a book, did I "discover America" ? What if I see video of somebody's vacation to New York but mistakenly believe it to be in Germany, did I just "discover America" even though I don't even know the literal continent of America exists? It is definitely not clear that Colombus ever realised he had set foot on a continent Europeans didn't previously realise existed. Maybe he knew this and pretended not to, or maybe he was too stupid to figure it out, we can't tell, it suited him better to have succeeded in finding a route to the East, by going West, which was definitely not what he'd actually done. His original plan literally doesn't work, but he got lucky.
- not2b 4y ago
  A more accurate statement of his significance is that he started the European conquest of the Americas. That's the impact of what he did and distinguishes him from previous explorers (like Leif Ericsson) who stumbled onto the Americas earlier but didn't have a lasting impact.

golem14 4y ago

Cue Stan Freberg (do youself a favor and listen to the whole musical): """ Columbus: Hello there, hello there. We white men–other side of ocean. My name Christopher Columbus. Native: Oh? You over here on a Fulbright? Columbus: Huh? Uh, no,no, I’m over here on an Isabella, as a matter of fact. Which reminds me, I want to take a few of you guys back on the boat with me to prove I discovered you. Native: What you mean, you discover us? We discover you. Columbus: You discovered us? Native: Certainly. We discover you on beach here. Is all how you look at it. """

LudwigNagasena 4y ago
You can tell it’s written by an American because a guy (an Italian for an extra punchline) from 15th century mentions his “whiteness” for no reason whatsoever.

frozencell 4y ago

I think he was preceded by Norman navigators many times by the way.

smegsicle 4y ago
i think plants were actually the first to behold this great land
- goatlover 4y ago
  I think fungi first crawled upon that great land.

nitwit005 4y ago

What Columbus discovered was that there was land to the West of Europe, along the route he took, which was not known at the time.

cardamomo 4y ago
"Was not known" by whom?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- nitwit005 4y ago
  Let me just reverse this, re-using my words. Who do you imagine knew "that there was land to the West of Europe, along the route he took"?
  - ahelwer 4y ago
    Wow, he sure gets a lot of clout - his name showing up in this internet thread half a millennium later - for an achievement with so many qualifiers!
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]