5 ms·

Or combine it with a fine for creating debris?

_jal 4y ago
I think it is past time to make launchers publish their plan for lifecycle management, and perhaps post bonds against them, in case they go bankrupt. Making sovereigns pay for trashing the commons is tricky for obvious reasons. But we don't have those problems with corporations.
- bagels 4y ago
  US, through the FCC of all things, requires licensing applications (before launch) to address satellite lifetimes.
cma 4y ago
Throwaway LLC creates the debris and goes bankrupt from fines, main company does the cleanup.
notsapiensatall 4y ago
All well and good, until someone decides to lob a missile at a satellite and make a little Kessler syndrome, or launch missions with no reentry plans from a nation that hasn't signed your treaty. I don't think it's a bad idea to be proactive about space cleanup, rather than reactive.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
How are you going to get e.g. the Chinese Government to pay? (1) And if you can get them to agree to pay, who is a suitable body that they can be convinced to pay it _to_ ? I'm pretty sure that any arm of the US government, or US parastatal body, would not be acceptable. It's an international governance problem. 1) https://www.space.com/3415-china-anti-satellite-test-worrisome-debris-cloud-circles-earth.html https://www.space.com/3415-china-anti-satellite-test-worriso...
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > How are you going to get e.g. the Chinese Government to pay? Seize assets of nation-state entities (or entities controlled by the Chinese state) like airplanes and ships or bank funds, release them after payment.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    But are there any serious, adult, workable proposals?
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      Yes of course. We did that over a decade ago in Germany - a construction company was owed 30 million euros from the government of Thailand, so our police seized the airplane of the king at the Munich airport, and in 2005 we did the same for a collection of debt against Lebanon [1]. [1] https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article13485097/Boeing-von-Thailands-Kronprinzen-beschlagnahmt.html https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article13485097/Boeing-von-Th...
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        So to be clear, you would say that China's standing and general compliance to perceived hostile action against it is the same as Lebanon or Thailand? IMHO, that is very naïve.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        China's "standing" is being a fucking bully that doesn't care about any rules.
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        That opinion is consistent with the link that I posted - smashing a satellite into debris for kicks. But it does seem to be inconsistent with taking your above "seize assets" suggestions seriously.

_jal 4y ago

I think it is past time to make launchers publish their plan for lifecycle management, and perhaps post bonds against them, in case they go bankrupt. Making sovereigns pay for trashing the commons is tricky for obvious reasons. But we don't have those problems with corporations.

bagels 4y ago
US, through the FCC of all things, requires licensing applications (before launch) to address satellite lifetimes.

cma 4y ago

Throwaway LLC creates the debris and goes bankrupt from fines, main company does the cleanup.

notsapiensatall 4y ago

All well and good, until someone decides to lob a missile at a satellite and make a little Kessler syndrome, or launch missions with no reentry plans from a nation that hasn't signed your treaty. I don't think it's a bad idea to be proactive about space cleanup, rather than reactive.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

How are you going to get e.g. the Chinese Government to pay? (1) And if you can get them to agree to pay, who is a suitable body that they can be convinced to pay it _to_ ? I'm pretty sure that any arm of the US government, or US parastatal body, would not be acceptable. It's an international governance problem. 1) https://www.space.com/3415-china-anti-satellite-test-worrisome-debris-cloud-circles-earth.html https://www.space.com/3415-china-anti-satellite-test-worriso...

mschuster91 4y ago
> How are you going to get e.g. the Chinese Government to pay? Seize assets of nation-state entities (or entities controlled by the Chinese state) like airplanes and ships or bank funds, release them after payment.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  But are there any serious, adult, workable proposals?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Yes of course. We did that over a decade ago in Germany - a construction company was owed 30 million euros from the government of Thailand, so our police seized the airplane of the king at the Munich airport, and in 2005 we did the same for a collection of debt against Lebanon [1]. [1] https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article13485097/Boeing-von-Thailands-Kronprinzen-beschlagnahmt.html https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article13485097/Boeing-von-Th...
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      So to be clear, you would say that China's standing and general compliance to perceived hostile action against it is the same as Lebanon or Thailand? IMHO, that is very naïve.
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        China's "standing" is being a fucking bully that doesn't care about any rules.
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        That opinion is consistent with the link that I posted - smashing a satellite into debris for kicks. But it does seem to be inconsistent with taking your above "seize assets" suggestions seriously.