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Couldn’t that have been done equally well with a centralized ledger? Lots of games have “high stakes pvp”, such as eve online. They don’t have a blockchain, and

Couldn’t that have been done equally well with a centralized ledger? Lots of games have “high stakes pvp”, such as eve online. They don’t have a blockchain, and yet you can still steal stuff permanently from other players if that’s how you want to play the game.

Kiro 4y ago
Let's say I want to build a game where you can destroy your EVE Online spaceships to get bonuses in my game. How would that work? That's what happened with CryptoKitties and HyperDragons. Just to clarify: someone who owns a CryptoKitty decides to send it to the HyperDragons smart contract that handles the absorption. It's not about stealing anything. You use your assets in CryptoKitties to boost your dragon in HyperDragons.
- Chabsff 4y ago
  This is not inherently made possible by the blockchain itself though. The mechanisms to transfer a Kitty to the HyperDragons lie within the CryptoKitty Smart Contract. This is not particularly different than a regular API, where the available operations have been chosen, specified, and made available to the public at large by the developers. The only real difference with a public-facing documented traditional API is that said API will outlive the original product. But that doesn't make CryptoKitties a better game, since Cripto Kitties won't be a thing anymore when that comes into play.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    > This is not inherently made possible by the blockchain itself though. It basically is. This is impossible on Eve, if you don't have permission from the people who make Eve. But, with something on the blockchain, you don't need permission from the person who made the original asset, on the blockchain. The asset is on the blockchain, and it is much more difficult to stop me from using that asset, compared to a centralized Eve database.
    - Chabsff 4y ago
      Two things are wrong here: 1) The reason it can't be done with EVE is not because EVE is not on the blockchain. It just happens to not be possible because the devs didn't make it so. They could have, but they chose not to. 2) Something being on the blockchain does not make it automatically permission-less. It depends on how the smart contracts involved are coded. I think point 2) is something that a lot of people don't realise wrt/ NFTs. The NFTs are transferable without the author being involved because the Smart Contract that drives them has a function (aka an API endpoint) that provides that feature. It is not a property of the blockchain itself. It is a property of an arbitrary piece of code that happens to reside on the blockchain. A property that any web service is capable of providing without the blockchain having to be involved.
      - stale2002 4y ago
        > It just happens to not be possible because the devs didn't make it so. They could have, but they chose not to. And then they could change it at any time, as they would be the central authority. There would be not way to stop them from changing it. Well, thats not true technically. I guess one way that they could implement it, such that they cannot change their mind in the future, would be if the game was run on some sort of decentralized public ledger, with a consensus mechanism.... oh wait, what does that sound like? Oh yeah, we have a word for that. Its called a blockchain. > Something being on the blockchain does not make it automatically permission-less. If I read the code, and the code makes it permissionless, the author can't change it later, if the code was written in a way that I can verify that. Thats the point. Yes, someone can always say "yep, I totally pretty please promise that I won't change anything! Just trust me!" And it is quite another thing for it to be a smart contract, that verifiably cannot be changed by the original author. Thats the difference. > (aka an API endpoint) that provides that feature. > A property that any web service is capable of providing Oh? A feature, such as a public, immutable ledger, that is decentralized in such a way, using a consensus algorithm (such as PoW or PoS), such that there is no central authority that can change it unilaterally? That feature? The feature that is, by definition, a blockchain? Yes, it is true that if you add all the features that a blockchain has, to your software, then by definition it has all the features of the blockchain. But that makes it a blockchain. You just re-invented the blockchain.
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Kiro 4y ago

Let's say I want to build a game where you can destroy your EVE Online spaceships to get bonuses in my game. How would that work? That's what happened with CryptoKitties and HyperDragons. Just to clarify: someone who owns a CryptoKitty decides to send it to the HyperDragons smart contract that handles the absorption. It's not about stealing anything. You use your assets in CryptoKitties to boost your dragon in HyperDragons.

Chabsff 4y ago
This is not inherently made possible by the blockchain itself though. The mechanisms to transfer a Kitty to the HyperDragons lie within the CryptoKitty Smart Contract. This is not particularly different than a regular API, where the available operations have been chosen, specified, and made available to the public at large by the developers. The only real difference with a public-facing documented traditional API is that said API will outlive the original product. But that doesn't make CryptoKitties a better game, since Cripto Kitties won't be a thing anymore when that comes into play.
- stale2002 4y ago
  > This is not inherently made possible by the blockchain itself though. It basically is. This is impossible on Eve, if you don't have permission from the people who make Eve. But, with something on the blockchain, you don't need permission from the person who made the original asset, on the blockchain. The asset is on the blockchain, and it is much more difficult to stop me from using that asset, compared to a centralized Eve database.
  - Chabsff 4y ago
    Two things are wrong here: 1) The reason it can't be done with EVE is not because EVE is not on the blockchain. It just happens to not be possible because the devs didn't make it so. They could have, but they chose not to. 2) Something being on the blockchain does not make it automatically permission-less. It depends on how the smart contracts involved are coded. I think point 2) is something that a lot of people don't realise wrt/ NFTs. The NFTs are transferable without the author being involved because the Smart Contract that drives them has a function (aka an API endpoint) that provides that feature. It is not a property of the blockchain itself. It is a property of an arbitrary piece of code that happens to reside on the blockchain. A property that any web service is capable of providing without the blockchain having to be involved.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      > It just happens to not be possible because the devs didn't make it so. They could have, but they chose not to. And then they could change it at any time, as they would be the central authority. There would be not way to stop them from changing it. Well, thats not true technically. I guess one way that they could implement it, such that they cannot change their mind in the future, would be if the game was run on some sort of decentralized public ledger, with a consensus mechanism.... oh wait, what does that sound like? Oh yeah, we have a word for that. Its called a blockchain. > Something being on the blockchain does not make it automatically permission-less. If I read the code, and the code makes it permissionless, the author can't change it later, if the code was written in a way that I can verify that. Thats the point. Yes, someone can always say "yep, I totally pretty please promise that I won't change anything! Just trust me!" And it is quite another thing for it to be a smart contract, that verifiably cannot be changed by the original author. Thats the difference. > (aka an API endpoint) that provides that feature. > A property that any web service is capable of providing Oh? A feature, such as a public, immutable ledger, that is decentralized in such a way, using a consensus algorithm (such as PoW or PoS), such that there is no central authority that can change it unilaterally? That feature? The feature that is, by definition, a blockchain? Yes, it is true that if you add all the features that a blockchain has, to your software, then by definition it has all the features of the blockchain. But that makes it a blockchain. You just re-invented the blockchain.
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