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First I think in this case the browsers are all stuck with a bad decision made in a different era because they don't want to break back compat, and there's no u

First I think in this case the browsers are all stuck with a bad decision made in a different era because they don't want to break back compat, and there's no user or product owner who thinks this is actually the right behavior. Do you expect every user and every product to be happy with bad behavior for philosophical reasons? Second a browser is less and less a user agent and more and more just an app runtime. It's only the lingering history that separates browsers from native app runtimes and not any real difference in expected semantics about experience control.

jen20 4y ago
> Do you expect every user and every product to be happy with bad behavior for philosophical reasons? No but I expect them to realise the boundary of their own control. > Second a browser is less and less a user agent and more and more just an app runtime. It's only the lingering history that separates browsers from native app runtimes and not any real difference in expected semantics about experience control. This is only true if we let it be true. I detest browser applications, which almost never are accessible, never use platform-native UI, do not integrate properly with system services. Except in dire circumstances, I simply refuse to use them. I am in no way willing to give up my uniform platform to appease someone who things that every UI element should be "branded".
- esrauch 4y ago
  I think most of your concern isn't actually relevant to this case. The point of the article is that default numeric input basically just fundamentally doesn't work unrelated to wanting "branding", it just doesn't validate user input in a way that is acceptable to either users or product owners: even if you wanted literally zero visual customization you shouldn't use it, and if you were building a native app you also wouldn't accept that behavior. And while there's a whole area about browsers becoming an app platform, this also isn't strongly relevant here because it's a meaningful problem even when building a trivial form submit. The choices here aren't branded vs unbranded, it's "does the website form submit validate user input or does it not validate user input?" Everyone wants the form to validate, and you can't reasonably validate input if you use that component, so no one can use the component.

jen20 4y ago

> Do you expect every user and every product to be happy with bad behavior for philosophical reasons? No but I expect them to realise the boundary of their own control. > Second a browser is less and less a user agent and more and more just an app runtime. It's only the lingering history that separates browsers from native app runtimes and not any real difference in expected semantics about experience control. This is only true if we let it be true. I detest browser applications, which almost never are accessible, never use platform-native UI, do not integrate properly with system services. Except in dire circumstances, I simply refuse to use them. I am in no way willing to give up my uniform platform to appease someone who things that every UI element should be "branded".

esrauch 4y ago
I think most of your concern isn't actually relevant to this case. The point of the article is that default numeric input basically just fundamentally doesn't work unrelated to wanting "branding", it just doesn't validate user input in a way that is acceptable to either users or product owners: even if you wanted literally zero visual customization you shouldn't use it, and if you were building a native app you also wouldn't accept that behavior. And while there's a whole area about browsers becoming an app platform, this also isn't strongly relevant here because it's a meaningful problem even when building a trivial form submit. The choices here aren't branded vs unbranded, it's "does the website form submit validate user input or does it not validate user input?" Everyone wants the form to validate, and you can't reasonably validate input if you use that component, so no one can use the component.