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Twilio CEO: Layoffs were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens
- foofoo4u 4y agoIn the filing, it states > As you all know, we are committed to becoming an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression company. Layoffs like this can have a more pronounced impact on marginalized communities, so we were particularly focused on ensuring our layoffs – while a business necessity today – were carried out through an Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens. What does it mean to layoff through an, "Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"?
- codefreeordie 4y agoYou focus on laying off as many folks from the "Oppressor" class as possible
- db48x 4y agoThey are going to be spending a lot of time and money on wrongful-termination lawsuits.
- codefreeordie 4y agoProbably not. Despite the clarity and obviousness of the statutes, courts have been pretty unwilling to consider discrimination claims put forward by white/male plaintiffs.
- pinewurst 4y agoI’m reminded of the Soviet joke about capitalism being man oppressing man, and socialism the other way around. Layoffs are almost always unfair in some way. This just tilts the unfairness in another direction.
- torstenvl 4y agoIt means they targeted employees for layoffs based on a protected characteristic, and admitted it in public.
- polski-g 4y agoSo now they're going to have to write a settlement check to the Whites/Asians they fired, or re-hire them and fire the non-Whites/Asians. Hilarious.
- TheBigSalad 4y agoMaking sure you aren't disproportionately firing people of a certain race for reasons other than performance. For example, maybe a particular dept you don't need is coincidentally in an area with more black people and is disproportionately black. You might let go of people in other departments and transfer some of the minority employees. Or maybe you just fire people randomly. You at least look at your list and make sure it's not disproportionately one race or full of minorities, and if it is, find out why.
- polski-g 4y agoIt is unlawful to even consider protected characteristics in any employment decision. You can't look at characteristics for hiring, firing, promoting, not promoting, or even transferring.
- rparet 4y agoThis is completely untrue. Google “adverse impact hr” for a quick education on this topic.
- the_doctah 4y agoWhy do you think this phrase, which describes the outcome, makes the action any less illegal?
- chadash 4y agoI am skeptical that a company the size of Twilio wouldn't run this by employment lawyers first. Do you have any sources to cite here?
- the_doctah 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
- 4y ago
- mc32 4y agoIt means when the HR took the spreadsheet over from the beancounters they UNHID the race/gender columns that legal had set to HIDE, so they could make better decisions on who would get the axe.
- the_doctah 4y agoKind of like how LinkedIn asked me to identify my demographic in order to promote more "equitable" outcomes
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y agoIt’s a vague platitude and the devil is in the details. For example, you could implement the policy by sending this instruction to your managers: “Please avoid preferentially keeping people on because you have a connection outside work, for example, a family relation or college fraternity membership.” Who knows if this would have any effect, but most would agree the attempt is “anti-racist/anti-oppression”.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoIf two employees are otherwise equally performing, the company has to lay off one of them....but one would have significantly greater difficulty finding re-employment, that's something they want to consider in the decision of which employee is laid off. It also probably means they acknowledge that there are extensively proven biases against people of color throughout society, and tried to assure that people were not more likely to be laid off because they were a minority. Just look at the majority of comments here shouting about how this is discriminatory realize how many people in the tech sector look at a black woman interviewing for a programming job and consciously or unconsciously assume she's gotten as far as she has based off diversity quotas or "woke hiring managers" etc...and thus question her credentials more, scrutinize her background more closely, are pickier about her answers to questions and her solutions to coding problems. Edit: "people in tech think a black woman interviewing with them is incompetent because of diversity hire initiatives" != "diversity hire initiatives result in incompetent employees" just like all the kids believing in Santa don't make Santa real. Don't use my words to justify your "reverse discrimination" narratives. Outgroup candidats start from "less likely to get hired"; diversity initiatives help push them toward "fair chance in the hiring process." Edit2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32857237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32857237
- achenatx 4y agothats exactly the problem with quotas and biased hiring. If it exists people will assume any given person was actually less qualified and got in because of the quota.
- mizzack 4y ago> If two employees are otherwise equally performing, the company has to lay off one of them....but one would have significantly greater difficulty finding re-employment, that's something they want to consider in the decision of which employee is laid off. This completely ignores that most companies have their own DEI and ESG based hiring initiatives.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoThe existence of DEI and ESG hiring initiatives doesn't mean an outgroup candidate won't still face a tougher time finding re-employment. Read through all the outraged comments here (and the other three discussions about this) about "woke" this and "diversity programs are illegal discrimination" that, and tell me with a straight face that because some companies have diversity programs, that minorities in tech have just as much of a fair shot at employment as a white worker.
- bombcar 4y agoIt means you hired an anti-racism consultant who charged you probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to tell you that you're anti-racist. What else would it practically mean?
- protomyth 4y agoWhat does it mean to layoff through an, "Anti-Racist/Anti-Oppression lens"? Some woke CEO and HR, have come to the belief that they don't have to know anything about the person, their character, value to the company, or history. They can determine worthiness of the employee by a check box in "Race" or what pronouns the worker uses. I suppose its an easy way to express their own guilt without actually hurting themselves. Plus, it makes them a hero at those parties they go to. Clearly if you name two factors, you are going to consider those two factors and actually be Racist and have Oppression of your own. I'm just sick of the assumptions of people. I get the feeling when the lawsuits come, the internal e-mails in discovery will confirm my worst fears about how the CEO operated.
- ltbarcly3 4y agoI'm willing to wager this is a way to try to look good for keeping the employees you pay less to do the same job. If employee pay is 'confidential' at Twilio I would be willing to wager a very large sum indeed. Why do I think this is underhanded? Because you can do this and also not strut around and flaunt it. If you believe it is morally preferable to lay a white person off rather than another person to counter injustice, you don't help anyone involved by mentioning it. It foments anger and resentment among the laid off employees who are already having one of the worst days of their life, and who gains from broadcasting it? Just Twilio's management.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoWhat does ‘confidential’ mean? It would be illegal for Twilio to tell their employees they cannot discuss pay. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...
- nopenopenopeno 4y agoIt would not be illegal for Twilio to share the pay of all Twilio employees with all Twilio employees.
- ltbarcly3 4y agoSome companies are open about pay structure and others put a chill on such discussions as a tactic. Twilio seems to be flaunting labor law here anyway since: The law makes it illegal for an employer to make any employment decision because of a person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices
- heurisko 4y agoI can think of few better ways to increase racial tension.
- nopenopenopeno 4y agoIncreasing racial tension has long been the hallmark strategy of the North American ruling class, and nobody is better at it than them.
- inawarminister 4y agoYep, better keep the peons fighting each other than uniting to oppose the elites like they did in 2011.
- the_doctah 4y agoHow has no one filed a lawsuit with regards to these practices yet? My last manager told me there was a "side pot" of raise money for diverse employees. Surely all it would take is one lawsuit to torpedo such a policy.
- pclmulqdq 4y agoUnfortunately, it would likely take a lot more than one lawsuit. Colleges have been repeatedly sued for racist practices during admissions and keep finding a new ways to legally implement racial bias. The court of public opinion is a lot better at fighting against things like this than the courts of law - it was really what brought down Jim Crow in the US (the law followed the popular opinion).
- crackercrews 4y agoA thread from yesterday had discussion about the legality of all this. [1] Turns out affirmative action can be legal in uni admissions but not generally in employment. So analogies to education are not particularly apt. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837802
- KennyBlanken 4y agoAffirmative action is legal in employment where there is a historical imbalance or disparity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32857237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32857237
- yucky 4y ago>it was really what brought down Jim Crow in the US Interestingly enough, the Jim Crow laws (as awful as they were) were actually less racist than the outright race-based discrimination being used today, particularly against Asians. Jim Crow Laws were used against poor whites as well, something forgotten by many. Dr. Adolph Reed has made this point for years - https://goodbye.substack.com/p/adolph-reed-jr-jim-crow-raceclass https://goodbye.substack.com/p/adolph-reed-jr-jim-crow-racec.... His argument is that this is done to keep people's eyes off the prize in terms of class struggle, in order to make it all about identity.
- whymauri 4y agoalready discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837802
- hoofedear 4y agoGotta beat the dead horse some more I guess
- antiterra 4y agoI’m not sure I could take being called a ‘Twilion’ as anything other than dehumanizing. At the very least it feels inappropriately casual in this context.
- threevox 4y agoJust call yourself diverse if you have a problem with this. It's dumb and illiberal, but there are easy hacks to get around it
- the_doctah 4y agoIt's patently illegal based on the Civil Rights Act.
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago…which apparently doesn’t apply to US Senators
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- xvector 4y agoWhoever made this decision ought to go to prison.
- Bullfight2Cond 4y agoTranslation: 'We fired the white men who we were paying more than the others.' Woke capitalism at its finest.
- BossingAround 4y agoActually a briliant marketing move to call it a DEI thing.
- jamal-kumar 4y agoMy favorite part about the whole Twilio layoffs is how they spent boatloads of money on events with some celebrities like Sting in there for days like Christmas, and now they are doing this. [1] As someone who has had their pay messed with by celebrity endorsement before, I can understand when I hear people who have been laid off are pissed about this. [1] https://www.drurydesign.com/twilio-year-in-revue https://www.drurydesign.com/twilio-year-in-revue
- immigrantheart 4y agoSue the shit out of this CEO. Sincerely, A non white person.
- cwoolfe 4y agoDeliberately targeting layoffs based on class reminds me of Soviet Russia. https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor. Communists decided to take the land of wealthy and productive kulak farmers; it resulted in mass starvation.
- dang 4y agoTwilio promises ‘anti-racist’ layoffs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32849920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32849920 - Sept 2022 (4 comments) Twilio to lay off 11% of workforce - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837802 - Sept 2022 (436 comments) A message from Twilio CEO Jeff Lawson: 11% workforce cut - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837345 - Sept 2022 (197 comments) Twilio cutting 11% – Letter from CEO [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837250 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32837250 - Sept 2022 (104 comments)
- seydor 4y agoI dont see a problem here. The company will use the layoffs to reach their diversity targets and hopefully nobody will be oppressed or be racist anymore
- pnf 4y agoIf a public company can't hire its way to a good ESG score, it can surely fire its way. Next stop is favorable financial terms from Blackrock et al.
- mynameishere 4y agoMost companies already have similar policies for hiring. Why not firing?
- guilhas 4y ago
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago>"so we were particularly focused on ensuring our layoffs -- while a business necessity today -- were carried out through a Racist/Racially-Oppression lens." Fixed that for you.. And oh boy would I not want to be one of this companies lawyers in the coming months and no doubt years! Yikes