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It's not a matter of hiding. Companies do not want to know. I guarantee that in many (likely the vast majority) of these cases someone in management is aware a

It's not a matter of hiding. Companies do not want to know. I guarantee that in many (likely the vast majority) of these cases someone in management is aware and is pursuing a don't ask don't tell policy because they don't want to deal with the fallout. It's extremely common to work while on a visitor's visa in another country, for example. I bet there is not a single manager reading this comment who has not had one of their employees send work emails while traveling internationally on a visitor's visa. I have several friends who are doing the digital nomad thing, working all over the world while ostensibly traveling on visas that prohibit work. If they officially asked HR, HR would be forced to officially tell them to not work. But they're never going to ask, and their direct managers are never going to report the situation. I know of several situations as well where the employee moved. The company response is pretty much universally "you can't do it so please don't tell us about it because if it's ever put in writing we have to act on it"

justmestanding 4y ago
kube-system 4y ago
Sending an email on vacation is one thing. Setting up residency is something else entirely.
- sfvegandude 4y ago
  Not to the country you’re visiting. I had to attest to the German government that I would not send any emails or write any reports on my recent work trip there. Else, I needed a work permit.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I was careful not to say it was allowable to send emails on vacation from anywhere. Because, as you illustrate, it isn’t. I am saying that magnitude of the problem will be significantly more if you lie about residency.
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  They're degrees of the same thing. In my experience companies don't want to know about it if at all possible. In some cases working on a vacation is a more serious issue - I have heard stories of employees remote working from sanctioned countries and employers finding out after the fact.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    >They're degrees of the same thing. No; they're not. Intention often matters in immigration. If the purpose of your stay in a country is tourism, that is one thing. If the purpose of your stay is to work remotely then that is a different thing.
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      We are talking about situations where the purpose is to work remotely on vacation. This is an extremely common scenario. As I said, it is a matter of degree.
      - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
        Your original reply was to a post saying: Sending an email on vacation is one thing. Setting up residency is something else entirely. Those do not have the same intention. In the first case, the email is incidental to the vacation. In the second case, the purpose is to work (which defies the claim to be "on vacation" in the first place). No-one is confused about whether they're going on a foreign vacation (taking vacation time, telling their colleagues they're not going to be available etc) and handling a few emails vs. setting out to work remotely from another country that might have a superior climate. The suggestion that these are the same thing based on observing that both involve work email in a foreign country is pretty obviously ridiculous. If you tell the immigration officer at the border that you're planning to work remotely with your tourist visa, they're going to put you on the first plane home.
        throwaway09223 4y ago
jen20 4y ago
Almost no tourist/business visas prevent working, almost all prevent employment in the country you are visiting.
d1sxeyes 4y ago
Within the EU, it would likely be considered an invasion of worker privacy (indiscriminate screening of where employees are logging in from). Even if it weren't an invasion of privacy, as you say, companies want to be able to point and say 'look, we have a policy, you aren't allowed!' and blame workers for breaking the rules rather than trying to solve the (admittedly complex) tax regulations about working outside the country you are normally employed in. But it's also convenient not to know.
jeffwask 4y ago
> It's not a matter of hiding. Companies do not want to know. If a company doesn't want to know you shouldn't be doing business with that company. Sure some of these cases are John Doe wanting to live as a secret expat but not all. In a remote world, you have to know. There are numerous fake employee scams that have a number of different outcomes that present exactly in this manner. 1) Steal or forge a decent looking identity. 2) Have a face that interviews and attends some of the early weeks on camera then slides back to off camera 3) Profit whether it's theft or double-dipping or code farms This isn't a pretend scenario. It's active. Depending on your vertical and internal zero trust architecture a breach of this nature could be devastating. So sure, maybe that employee is lying about their location to soak a big salary under a cheap cost of living but maybe they are something much darker and you can't leave that stone unturned.
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  "If a company doesn't want to know you shouldn't be doing business with that company." It's true of literally everyone you do business with, so good luck with that.
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Not true of mine or any operations team I have run or been a part of so take your throwaway nihilism elsewhere son.

justmestanding 4y ago

kube-system 4y ago

Sending an email on vacation is one thing. Setting up residency is something else entirely.

sfvegandude 4y ago
Not to the country you’re visiting. I had to attest to the German government that I would not send any emails or write any reports on my recent work trip there. Else, I needed a work permit.
- kube-system 4y ago
  I was careful not to say it was allowable to send emails on vacation from anywhere. Because, as you illustrate, it isn’t. I am saying that magnitude of the problem will be significantly more if you lie about residency.
throwaway09223 4y ago
They're degrees of the same thing. In my experience companies don't want to know about it if at all possible. In some cases working on a vacation is a more serious issue - I have heard stories of employees remote working from sanctioned countries and employers finding out after the fact.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  >They're degrees of the same thing. No; they're not. Intention often matters in immigration. If the purpose of your stay in a country is tourism, that is one thing. If the purpose of your stay is to work remotely then that is a different thing.
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    We are talking about situations where the purpose is to work remotely on vacation. This is an extremely common scenario. As I said, it is a matter of degree.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      Your original reply was to a post saying: Sending an email on vacation is one thing. Setting up residency is something else entirely. Those do not have the same intention. In the first case, the email is incidental to the vacation. In the second case, the purpose is to work (which defies the claim to be "on vacation" in the first place). No-one is confused about whether they're going on a foreign vacation (taking vacation time, telling their colleagues they're not going to be available etc) and handling a few emails vs. setting out to work remotely from another country that might have a superior climate. The suggestion that these are the same thing based on observing that both involve work email in a foreign country is pretty obviously ridiculous. If you tell the immigration officer at the border that you're planning to work remotely with your tourist visa, they're going to put you on the first plane home.
      - throwaway09223 4y ago

jen20 4y ago

Almost no tourist/business visas prevent working, almost all prevent employment in the country you are visiting.

d1sxeyes 4y ago

Within the EU, it would likely be considered an invasion of worker privacy (indiscriminate screening of where employees are logging in from). Even if it weren't an invasion of privacy, as you say, companies want to be able to point and say 'look, we have a policy, you aren't allowed!' and blame workers for breaking the rules rather than trying to solve the (admittedly complex) tax regulations about working outside the country you are normally employed in. But it's also convenient not to know.

jeffwask 4y ago

> It's not a matter of hiding. Companies do not want to know. If a company doesn't want to know you shouldn't be doing business with that company. Sure some of these cases are John Doe wanting to live as a secret expat but not all. In a remote world, you have to know. There are numerous fake employee scams that have a number of different outcomes that present exactly in this manner. 1) Steal or forge a decent looking identity. 2) Have a face that interviews and attends some of the early weeks on camera then slides back to off camera 3) Profit whether it's theft or double-dipping or code farms This isn't a pretend scenario. It's active. Depending on your vertical and internal zero trust architecture a breach of this nature could be devastating. So sure, maybe that employee is lying about their location to soak a big salary under a cheap cost of living but maybe they are something much darker and you can't leave that stone unturned.

throwaway09223 4y ago
"If a company doesn't want to know you shouldn't be doing business with that company." It's true of literally everyone you do business with, so good luck with that.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Not true of mine or any operations team I have run or been a part of so take your throwaway nihilism elsewhere son.