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> 66 percent of the 1,500 full-time employees surveyed in the U.S. and U.S. said they did not tell human resources about all the dates they worked outside of th

> 66 percent of the 1,500 full-time employees surveyed in the U.S. and U.S. said they did not tell human resources about all the dates they worked outside of their state or country, and 94 percent said they believe they should be able to work wherever they want if their work gets done. This is what it boils down to. If you want a remote workforce, you're not going to be able to keep them confined to some box that you decide is acceptable.

gadders 4y ago
I don't think businesses care, other than issues with taxation if people start working from another country. It's the fault of tax services and governments.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  They care from a security perspective; good employees can become insider threats if they're in countries where the rule of law is weak.
  - jobs_throwaway 4y ago
    Unless you're working for a defense contractor, in which case they aren't letting you WFH in the first place, foreign governments do not give a shit about your 'insider knowledge'
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      OK, let me rephrase: as a senior manager within the broadly-defined technology security function of a large US company (that is not a defense contractor), I care, as does our board of directors.
      - lardo 4y ago
        I must be idealistic in expecting a senior manager to do better than "Do what you're told because we told you".
        gadders 4y ago
        I don't think it's that. Supposing an employee had access to approve and pay invoices for a US company, and then moved to a country that had no extradition treaty with the US. I wouldn't be surprised if there were worries about someone working from a sanctioned country as well. Would paying their wages break sanctions?
    - smileysteve 4y ago
      This is pretty naive to say on the same day that Okta was told they can't operate in certain regions. The SEC and Shareholders care if you go against NIST guidelines.
bedast 4y ago
I suspect what it really boils down to is laws. Taxation works different outside of US borders, and there may be export restrictions to consider. It's a valid point that you won't be able to nail down a remote workforce that travels within the country's borders, but leaving the country may be a problem. I am not a lawyer so perhaps my hypothesis is wrong.
- jobs_throwaway 4y ago
  good luck to any company that wants 1) a competitive remote workforce and 2) to monitor employee movements and locations at all times
  - smileysteve 4y ago
    the companies may care less. The country/state an individual is working from has the potential to arrest and deport the individual. Or fine and garnish wages for unpaid taxes.
    - galangalalgol 4y ago
      For countries they have visas to go on, but moving between states or within the eu zone, how would they even know? If I have a po box or perhaps even a street address in WA or TX (no state income tax) but live in an airbnb somewhere in CA, how can the state figure it out? The employer probably can't either since you could run their vpn over your vpn.
      - bmhin 4y ago
        I mean, taxes are a real thing and you have to pay them based on where you (the employee) live and do work. In the US for state income tax, it's a confusing mix of both lived location and worked location in various amounts by governments with a "claim" and with plenty of exceptions to go around. Consulting companies have had to deal with it forever (and states have "handled" forever), because you live in Miami, doing work for a company based in LA, and you travel to your client in NYC for 3 days a week for the whole year (60% of your income "generated" there). This is now a complicated Florida, New York, California scenario. So the choice isn't Big Brother companies who want to know where you are at all times and respectful companies who allow you to get your work done how you want. It's between companies who are following the applicable tax laws or those who are not. A company that is structurally opting to not follow laws seems untenable. A company is a legal construct in many ways. Whether or not the employee can commit something like tax fraud is perhaps a less interesting question, because, yeah, you can probably cheat on your taxes.
flerchin 4y ago
This is the same set of rules that Basketball players fall under. They played a game in $cityState, and that locality wants their cut. Granted, there's little way to tell if I'm working from the Grand Canyon, or touring it, but AZ still believes they should get their cut.

gadders 4y ago

I don't think businesses care, other than issues with taxation if people start working from another country. It's the fault of tax services and governments.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
They care from a security perspective; good employees can become insider threats if they're in countries where the rule of law is weak.
- jobs_throwaway 4y ago
  Unless you're working for a defense contractor, in which case they aren't letting you WFH in the first place, foreign governments do not give a shit about your 'insider knowledge'
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    OK, let me rephrase: as a senior manager within the broadly-defined technology security function of a large US company (that is not a defense contractor), I care, as does our board of directors.
    - lardo 4y ago
      I must be idealistic in expecting a senior manager to do better than "Do what you're told because we told you".
      - gadders 4y ago
        I don't think it's that. Supposing an employee had access to approve and pay invoices for a US company, and then moved to a country that had no extradition treaty with the US. I wouldn't be surprised if there were worries about someone working from a sanctioned country as well. Would paying their wages break sanctions?
  - smileysteve 4y ago
    This is pretty naive to say on the same day that Okta was told they can't operate in certain regions. The SEC and Shareholders care if you go against NIST guidelines.

bedast 4y ago

I suspect what it really boils down to is laws. Taxation works different outside of US borders, and there may be export restrictions to consider. It's a valid point that you won't be able to nail down a remote workforce that travels within the country's borders, but leaving the country may be a problem. I am not a lawyer so perhaps my hypothesis is wrong.

jobs_throwaway 4y ago
good luck to any company that wants 1) a competitive remote workforce and 2) to monitor employee movements and locations at all times
- smileysteve 4y ago
  the companies may care less. The country/state an individual is working from has the potential to arrest and deport the individual. Or fine and garnish wages for unpaid taxes.
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    For countries they have visas to go on, but moving between states or within the eu zone, how would they even know? If I have a po box or perhaps even a street address in WA or TX (no state income tax) but live in an airbnb somewhere in CA, how can the state figure it out? The employer probably can't either since you could run their vpn over your vpn.
    - bmhin 4y ago
      I mean, taxes are a real thing and you have to pay them based on where you (the employee) live and do work. In the US for state income tax, it's a confusing mix of both lived location and worked location in various amounts by governments with a "claim" and with plenty of exceptions to go around. Consulting companies have had to deal with it forever (and states have "handled" forever), because you live in Miami, doing work for a company based in LA, and you travel to your client in NYC for 3 days a week for the whole year (60% of your income "generated" there). This is now a complicated Florida, New York, California scenario. So the choice isn't Big Brother companies who want to know where you are at all times and respectful companies who allow you to get your work done how you want. It's between companies who are following the applicable tax laws or those who are not. A company that is structurally opting to not follow laws seems untenable. A company is a legal construct in many ways. Whether or not the employee can commit something like tax fraud is perhaps a less interesting question, because, yeah, you can probably cheat on your taxes.

flerchin 4y ago

This is the same set of rules that Basketball players fall under. They played a game in $cityState, and that locality wants their cut. Granted, there's little way to tell if I'm working from the Grand Canyon, or touring it, but AZ still believes they should get their cut.