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Surprising that the article doesn't mention Judith Butler, since it was her later, idiosyncratic use of the term "performative" that gained currency among blogg

Surprising that the article doesn't mention Judith Butler, since it was her later, idiosyncratic use of the term "performative" that gained currency among bloggers and Tumblr user and so on, and from there entered common discourse. Now it seems to have taken on a pejorative sense kind of resembling "virtue-signaling." (Feel free to correct me, anyone, if I'm mistaken in my history.)

blueflow 4y ago
I noticed that Judith Butler has like, very similar views on performing gender than i do, except we draw different conclusions from it. For her its like some part of how life should be, while i wish people would stop it and focus on more important things. This might be a matter of personal opinion.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  What would "stop it" look like though? The abolition of gender expression? That's far more radical than anything you'll find in... anything but definitely butler's work. She's more establishing a technical framework of understanding how gender comes to mean what it does and reproduce that meaning over time.
  - blueflow 4y ago
    I could ask the reverse, why are some people so insisting on doing things just because they are typical for their gender? Non-performing is sort of the default situation as a kid when you don't know yet how girls or boys are "supposed to be". You did it, too! People who don't perform any gender role are actually quite common, they are just inconspicuous.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      Oh I know. I'm far more radical than the baseline on this, and think we are correctly moving towards a significant decoupling of gender expression from many of the things it used to signify, and that overall this is good. But I also know that some element of gender expression is present in nearly all human cultures across time, and it is a powerful meaning maker both for individuals and societies, and that being more aware of that and doing it intentionally seems to make it a more powerful act, not less. And just on a practical level it's still not clear to anyone really what elements of human experience are strictly mediated through gender performance and which are inescapable parts of our biology. I welcome exploration and play in this area, but I can't confidently assert that a genderless future is even possible, or desirable if it is. It really does seem to be as much a part of us as storytelling, or music. I may be wrong on this and that's fine and time will tell. But again both people and cultures find deep meaning and even selfhood in expressing gender, and I don't feel like, from here in 2022, we have the understanding to say they are wrong to do so.
      - blueflow 4y ago
        You seem to put much more thought into it than i do. I just want to be around authentic people, and gender performers aren't, i can see through the facade even if i wish i couldn't, that is my problem with them.
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        Ah I see. I think the butler position is we are all gender performers, it's not really something you either are or aren't. For example a purse is a very useful item in an urban environment, so every man who doesn't use one is performing gender by rejecting a practical tool because of its gendered signals. We don't tend to notice these minor acts of gender performance because they're embedded in the culture and expected of us, but they are still performance. People who egregiously transgress gender expectations, which is I think what you are referring to as gender performers maybe, are choosing transgression but not performance. The performance is already there in one way or another, and imo they are as or more authentic than the rest of us in their willingness to acknowledge that and bear the social consequences of it.
        blueflow 4y ago
        My laptop bag used to be a purse and just now i realized other people could attribute a gender performance meaning to it. I did never ever spent a thought about it and was happy with it, and then you came. You just caused the problem you are describing.
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        lmao no that's just your insecurity. whole world's a stage buddy welcome to the show!
        blueflow 4y ago
        The insecurity thing was incorrect and rude, but the stage thing is my main grief. I don't want to perform on your stage, nor do i want to watch you do it. The script is nonsense.

blueflow 4y ago

I noticed that Judith Butler has like, very similar views on performing gender than i do, except we draw different conclusions from it. For her its like some part of how life should be, while i wish people would stop it and focus on more important things. This might be a matter of personal opinion.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
What would "stop it" look like though? The abolition of gender expression? That's far more radical than anything you'll find in... anything but definitely butler's work. She's more establishing a technical framework of understanding how gender comes to mean what it does and reproduce that meaning over time.
- blueflow 4y ago
  I could ask the reverse, why are some people so insisting on doing things just because they are typical for their gender? Non-performing is sort of the default situation as a kid when you don't know yet how girls or boys are "supposed to be". You did it, too! People who don't perform any gender role are actually quite common, they are just inconspicuous.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Oh I know. I'm far more radical than the baseline on this, and think we are correctly moving towards a significant decoupling of gender expression from many of the things it used to signify, and that overall this is good. But I also know that some element of gender expression is present in nearly all human cultures across time, and it is a powerful meaning maker both for individuals and societies, and that being more aware of that and doing it intentionally seems to make it a more powerful act, not less. And just on a practical level it's still not clear to anyone really what elements of human experience are strictly mediated through gender performance and which are inescapable parts of our biology. I welcome exploration and play in this area, but I can't confidently assert that a genderless future is even possible, or desirable if it is. It really does seem to be as much a part of us as storytelling, or music. I may be wrong on this and that's fine and time will tell. But again both people and cultures find deep meaning and even selfhood in expressing gender, and I don't feel like, from here in 2022, we have the understanding to say they are wrong to do so.
    - blueflow 4y ago
      You seem to put much more thought into it than i do. I just want to be around authentic people, and gender performers aren't, i can see through the facade even if i wish i couldn't, that is my problem with them.
      - giraffe_lady 4y ago
        Ah I see. I think the butler position is we are all gender performers, it's not really something you either are or aren't. For example a purse is a very useful item in an urban environment, so every man who doesn't use one is performing gender by rejecting a practical tool because of its gendered signals. We don't tend to notice these minor acts of gender performance because they're embedded in the culture and expected of us, but they are still performance. People who egregiously transgress gender expectations, which is I think what you are referring to as gender performers maybe, are choosing transgression but not performance. The performance is already there in one way or another, and imo they are as or more authentic than the rest of us in their willingness to acknowledge that and bear the social consequences of it.
        blueflow 4y ago
        My laptop bag used to be a purse and just now i realized other people could attribute a gender performance meaning to it. I did never ever spent a thought about it and was happy with it, and then you came. You just caused the problem you are describing.
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        lmao no that's just your insecurity. whole world's a stage buddy welcome to the show!
        blueflow 4y ago
        The insecurity thing was incorrect and rude, but the stage thing is my main grief. I don't want to perform on your stage, nor do i want to watch you do it. The script is nonsense.