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> You have no idea about life, to be honest. And you do? Everyone only has a small slice of what life is like. That is the life that you yourself lead. FYI I w

by Balero 4y ago

> You have no idea about life, to be honest. And you do? Everyone only has a small slice of what life is like. That is the life that you yourself lead. FYI I was a freelancer, chasing clients and invoices sucked, and was a waste of my time and skills. You obviously have very strong opinions on how great entrepreneurs are, it is also coming across as "employees are lesser" as well which is not right. There is nothing wrong (and a hell of a lot good) with not wanting to be a person that doesn't chase up invoices and worry about payroll, it lets you focus on doing a good job. Specialisation is a great thing, and would not be possible if everyone was busy marketing their own business/self. > At a minimum that's 12-16x more risk than even a freelancer. So they should get 12x the reward as the average? The average US wage is about $55k, so that would be, for a successful entrepreneur, 660k (and $0 for an unsuccessful one). I don't think anyone has a problem with this I certainly don't. I do have an issue with the ultra rich, like Bezos who have made 7.5 Billion a year since Amazon was founded, or 278,406 times the average wage from 1994 (26,939). Did he take 278,406 times the risk that an employee did. No. No he did not. > Oh and if insane people like myself didn't take this risk, the world would probably still be a foraging bunch of tribes. And you get hated for it for getting rich by exploiting people... And if everyone wanted to be an entrepreneur we would also still be like this. People need to actually do the day in day out grind work that is building things. 99% of this is done by employeed people. If everyone tried to do their own thing that would severely limit what can be done. You really need to stop looking down on your (and all) employees. edit: fixed maths - Bezos has too much money for my math skills.

cloutchaser 4y ago
> There is nothing wrong (and a hell of a lot good) with not wanting to be a person that doesn't chase up invoices and worry about payroll, it lets you focus on doing a good job. It has everything to do with this. Not wanting to be that person is fine. But then don't complain about people willing to take a lot more shit earning more than you. Generally, the stuff less people want to do (but is valuable to society), is better paid. > like Bezos who have made 7.5 Billion a year since Amazon was founded, or 278,406 times the average wage from 1994 The guy created 400,000 jobs during the covid crisis, when most other businesses were either shut or going bankrupt. That's 1% of the US population. Going by your $7.5bn a year, that's $18 per new employee that year. You think he doesn't deserve that?
- sokoloff 4y ago
  > Going by your $7.5bn a year, that's $18 per new employee that year 400,000 * 18 = 7.2 million, not 7.2 billion.
  - cloutchaser 4y ago
    Damnit. Fair point. Doesn't quite make the same point as before :) But still. 400k jobs is insane for 1 company.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      :) It's not just the 400K jobs; I think that Amazon's logistics capabilities helped make the practicalities of soft lockdowns and limiting your outside trips substantially more bearable in the early part of the pandemic. Amazon's deliveries avoided literally billions of in-person interactions during the peak uncertainties of C19. Bezos didn't start Amazon with that in mind, but it sure did help when called upon. Then, people had the unmitigated gall to complain that Amazon made a lot of money during that time period. Well no shit; they provided a ton of value to hundreds of millions of people...
- Balero 4y ago
  > The guy created 400,000 jobs during the covid crisis, No he didn't. The business he founded did, the investors that invested in this business did, the customers that paid for services did. The people that made all of that happen were employees. He is not solely responsible for anything. For a long while he was responsible than many others in the organisation, but ever since he hired another person he was never responsible for anything on his own. The idea that one person solely, directly lead to 400,000 people being employed is farcical. Did he really create a job spec, position, interview and do the paper work for 500 people each calendar day for two years? No he does not deserve the money he has.
sokoloff 4y ago
> So they should get 12x the reward as the average? The average US wage is about $55k, so that would be, for a successful entrepreneur, 660k (and $0 for an unsuccessful one). I don't think anyone has a problem with this I certainly don't. That's not how averages work. If 1 in 10 of entrepreneurs succeed at all and 1 in a million succeed notably, all of those millions of $0 outcomes flow to the 1 in a million (or 1 in 50 million?) success cases to make the average come out to whatever it is. If it worked like you suggest and 10% succeed, you'd have 10 @ $660K and 90 at $0K for an average of $66K.
- Balero 4y ago
  Yes you're quite right. I don't think it takes away from my point, that some people have far outsized rewards for the risks they take.

by Balero 4y ago

cloutchaser 4y ago

> There is nothing wrong (and a hell of a lot good) with not wanting to be a person that doesn't chase up invoices and worry about payroll, it lets you focus on doing a good job. It has everything to do with this. Not wanting to be that person is fine. But then don't complain about people willing to take a lot more shit earning more than you. Generally, the stuff less people want to do (but is valuable to society), is better paid. > like Bezos who have made 7.5 Billion a year since Amazon was founded, or 278,406 times the average wage from 1994 The guy created 400,000 jobs during the covid crisis, when most other businesses were either shut or going bankrupt. That's 1% of the US population. Going by your $7.5bn a year, that's $18 per new employee that year. You think he doesn't deserve that?

sokoloff 4y ago
> Going by your $7.5bn a year, that's $18 per new employee that year 400,000 * 18 = 7.2 million, not 7.2 billion.
- cloutchaser 4y ago
  Damnit. Fair point. Doesn't quite make the same point as before :) But still. 400k jobs is insane for 1 company.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    :) It's not just the 400K jobs; I think that Amazon's logistics capabilities helped make the practicalities of soft lockdowns and limiting your outside trips substantially more bearable in the early part of the pandemic. Amazon's deliveries avoided literally billions of in-person interactions during the peak uncertainties of C19. Bezos didn't start Amazon with that in mind, but it sure did help when called upon. Then, people had the unmitigated gall to complain that Amazon made a lot of money during that time period. Well no shit; they provided a ton of value to hundreds of millions of people...
Balero 4y ago
> The guy created 400,000 jobs during the covid crisis, No he didn't. The business he founded did, the investors that invested in this business did, the customers that paid for services did. The people that made all of that happen were employees. He is not solely responsible for anything. For a long while he was responsible than many others in the organisation, but ever since he hired another person he was never responsible for anything on his own. The idea that one person solely, directly lead to 400,000 people being employed is farcical. Did he really create a job spec, position, interview and do the paper work for 500 people each calendar day for two years? No he does not deserve the money he has.

sokoloff 4y ago

> So they should get 12x the reward as the average? The average US wage is about $55k, so that would be, for a successful entrepreneur, 660k (and $0 for an unsuccessful one). I don't think anyone has a problem with this I certainly don't. That's not how averages work. If 1 in 10 of entrepreneurs succeed at all and 1 in a million succeed notably, all of those millions of $0 outcomes flow to the 1 in a million (or 1 in 50 million?) success cases to make the average come out to whatever it is. If it worked like you suggest and 10% succeed, you'd have 10 @ $660K and 90 at $0K for an average of $66K.

Balero 4y ago
Yes you're quite right. I don't think it takes away from my point, that some people have far outsized rewards for the risks they take.