4 ms·

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want

by lrvick 4y ago

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.

IaacForHire 4y ago
As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling. Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  I'd never say this on Reddit, Facebook, or LinkedIn, but you're hanging out in Programmer Heaven right now, for fun, in your spare time. ANYONE hanging out here CAN definitely make a fat living in the SF Bay Area. Go out there and get rich!!! The only things I want to see you complaining about are interview loops, followed by the fact that you can barely afford a house on your $300k/year total compensation
  - IaacForHire 4y ago
    I wish I had your enthusiasm. I've been unemployed 90% of the time since Covid. Ironically, I've given at least 5 people their start in this industry who are all now worth 8 figures. There are haves and there are have nots.
    - iLoveOncall 4y ago
      Seems like the "not with that attitude" comment was spot on.
      - IaacForHire 4y ago
        Yes, you're right. After 25 years of mostly being treated like shit by start-ups with an average weekly work rate of 60 hours, my attitude is probably kind of bad. Do I really need to be a rockstar to get an inflationary raise every year? Take cost of living into account and we make about 40% less than we did 20 years ago.
        iLoveOncall 4y ago
        This is all a "you" problem. You have made the choice to work in shitty startups, you have made the choice to work 60 hours per week, and you have made the choice to accept jobs that would pay you below market rate. Being a bitter old man is not the attitude problem mentioned here, being someone that refuses to see that their unsatisfactory situation is 100% due to their own actions (or rather, lack of action) is your attitude problem. Also your resume is absolute garbage and your company's website is offline. Read https://www.careercup.com/resume https://www.careercup.com/resume
        IaacForHire 4y ago
        I would rather have a garbage resume, than be a garbage human being like yourself.
        iLoveOncall 4y ago
        Ok but then don't come complaining that your salary is stagnant and that you were unemployed for 90% of the past 3 years. It is your own doing.
        IaacForHire 4y ago
        I'll do whatever I damn well please. People like you are why San Franciscan locals like myself hate techies.
        Firmwarrior 4y ago
        Hey man, sorry people are crapping on you here. It's an unfair world full of selfish pricks and jerkoffs who'll screw you over given half a chance, while telling themselves they're making the world a better place in the process BUT you have the technical skills to leverage yourself into a favored position, and I'm confident you can do so if you reset your outlook and your approach. Nobody's going to pay you $300k because you deserve $300k, they're going to pay it because they're making $1M in revenue. Anyway, good luck out there
    - jobs_throwaway 4y ago
      And you're acting in such a way that you will always be a have not, and it will always be someone else's fault
- lrvick 4y ago
  I have a software engineering, sysadmin, and security background with 20 years of experience and I turn down opportunities of 250k+ frequently as I run my own company now which affords me more control of my time. I have no degree and am no influencer or genius. I just never stop learning so I can be the one bringing new ideas to the meeting. Your aversion to learning new things every 2 years sounds like a limiter. Even 2 years is too slow for this industry and probably why you feel capped. I am no workaholic, averaging 35h weeks, but I try to learn a new skillset every month or so. If there is a gap I identify at an employer or client that will make me learn a new programming language, infra stack, or new vulnerability discovery technique, my hand always goes up first. People are willing to pay more to those willing to run ahead into the dark and document a path for everyone else once they figure it out. I know others who are more do-what-they-are-asked personalities, who work a lot more hours, but being simply experienced and reliable has earned them 50k+/year bumps every time they change jobs with good referrals and open source projects people can reference.
  - IaacForHire 4y ago
    "Your aversion to learning new things every 2 years sounds like a limiter. Even 2 years is too slow for this industry and probably why you feel capped. " You failed to read my comment. I said I did it quite consistently. You cannot become an expert in a new skillset every month.
    - lrvick 4y ago
      I read it. It just read to me like you do not like having to constantly learn new things. I do not need to be an expert at something new every month. I just have to learn enough to unblock high-value efforts no one else wants to take on. The problems that come up more often I get better at solving faster over time. Not all skills are even work related, but just challenging myself. Last month I learned to solve a Rubiks cube in spare time. I will not break any records and am not an expert, but I can solve it in a minute which is good enough. I move on to the next skill. I am not an expert at anything, but I have spent months doing a bit of everything at one point or another. I tend to identify risks most others miss from having breadth-first experience in how entire stacks fit together from kernel system calls to network packets to end user frontend javascript. I ended up pivoting to full time security engineering several years ago as a result. Security is in a lot more demand than devops/sysadmin these days but all sysadmins have experience in security. Something to consider.
- revertmean 4y ago
  I used to be called sysadmin, then I was DevOps, and now I'm SRE. They're all the same thing. Search for Senior SRE on Google, and you'll quickly find jobs that pay more than $220k.
giantg2 4y ago
I feel like this is toxic positivity. People can't just make as much as they want. There's always competition and other constraining factors. It's absolutely reasonable to say that you'll never make $220k (in 2022 $) as a dev when the median is $110k, regardless of one's attitude.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > It's absolutely reasonable to say that you'll never make $220k (in 2022 $) as a dev when the median is $110k, regardless of one's attitude. If one's primary objective is to maximize income/money/wealth, then you should be prepared to be more flexible with the kind of work you do. There are many careers that pay more than my chosen career, but I am not interested in that work. Hell, it even applies within an industry. There are some companies in tech that have to pay a lot more to attract talent than other companies, because of their reputation, their culture, etc. You can choose to work there to make more money but it does not mean that other companies with better working conditions and more appealing products etc. should automatically match comp. Put differently, there can be many reasons why people choose one job, or career, over another. It is unreasonable to lament that your chosen work does not pay as much as another job, and more unreasonable to expect all jobs to pay similarly.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I don't see the part where all jobs are supposed to pay similarly. I think it's fair to bring up pay differences or that your employer is paying you less. That's how people become aware and get better comp. Staying quiet benefits the employer. Hell, it might even be a good reality check for some people on here who think there are enough high paying jobs for everyone (like all the kids thinking they'll be rockstars or play pro sports) that's not how stats, economics, and competitive markets work.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Remove TATA, now what is the median?
  - 4y ago

by lrvick 4y ago

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.

IaacForHire 4y ago

As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling. Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.

Firmwarrior 4y ago
I'd never say this on Reddit, Facebook, or LinkedIn, but you're hanging out in Programmer Heaven right now, for fun, in your spare time. ANYONE hanging out here CAN definitely make a fat living in the SF Bay Area. Go out there and get rich!!! The only things I want to see you complaining about are interview loops, followed by the fact that you can barely afford a house on your $300k/year total compensation
- IaacForHire 4y ago
  I wish I had your enthusiasm. I've been unemployed 90% of the time since Covid. Ironically, I've given at least 5 people their start in this industry who are all now worth 8 figures. There are haves and there are have nots.
  - iLoveOncall 4y ago
    Seems like the "not with that attitude" comment was spot on.
    - IaacForHire 4y ago
      Yes, you're right. After 25 years of mostly being treated like shit by start-ups with an average weekly work rate of 60 hours, my attitude is probably kind of bad. Do I really need to be a rockstar to get an inflationary raise every year? Take cost of living into account and we make about 40% less than we did 20 years ago.
      - iLoveOncall 4y ago
        This is all a "you" problem. You have made the choice to work in shitty startups, you have made the choice to work 60 hours per week, and you have made the choice to accept jobs that would pay you below market rate. Being a bitter old man is not the attitude problem mentioned here, being someone that refuses to see that their unsatisfactory situation is 100% due to their own actions (or rather, lack of action) is your attitude problem. Also your resume is absolute garbage and your company's website is offline. Read https://www.careercup.com/resume https://www.careercup.com/resume
        IaacForHire 4y ago
        I would rather have a garbage resume, than be a garbage human being like yourself.
        iLoveOncall 4y ago
        Ok but then don't come complaining that your salary is stagnant and that you were unemployed for 90% of the past 3 years. It is your own doing.
        IaacForHire 4y ago
        I'll do whatever I damn well please. People like you are why San Franciscan locals like myself hate techies.
      - Firmwarrior 4y ago
        Hey man, sorry people are crapping on you here. It's an unfair world full of selfish pricks and jerkoffs who'll screw you over given half a chance, while telling themselves they're making the world a better place in the process BUT you have the technical skills to leverage yourself into a favored position, and I'm confident you can do so if you reset your outlook and your approach. Nobody's going to pay you $300k because you deserve $300k, they're going to pay it because they're making $1M in revenue. Anyway, good luck out there
  - jobs_throwaway 4y ago
    And you're acting in such a way that you will always be a have not, and it will always be someone else's fault
lrvick 4y ago
I have a software engineering, sysadmin, and security background with 20 years of experience and I turn down opportunities of 250k+ frequently as I run my own company now which affords me more control of my time. I have no degree and am no influencer or genius. I just never stop learning so I can be the one bringing new ideas to the meeting. Your aversion to learning new things every 2 years sounds like a limiter. Even 2 years is too slow for this industry and probably why you feel capped. I am no workaholic, averaging 35h weeks, but I try to learn a new skillset every month or so. If there is a gap I identify at an employer or client that will make me learn a new programming language, infra stack, or new vulnerability discovery technique, my hand always goes up first. People are willing to pay more to those willing to run ahead into the dark and document a path for everyone else once they figure it out. I know others who are more do-what-they-are-asked personalities, who work a lot more hours, but being simply experienced and reliable has earned them 50k+/year bumps every time they change jobs with good referrals and open source projects people can reference.
- IaacForHire 4y ago
  "Your aversion to learning new things every 2 years sounds like a limiter. Even 2 years is too slow for this industry and probably why you feel capped. " You failed to read my comment. I said I did it quite consistently. You cannot become an expert in a new skillset every month.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    I read it. It just read to me like you do not like having to constantly learn new things. I do not need to be an expert at something new every month. I just have to learn enough to unblock high-value efforts no one else wants to take on. The problems that come up more often I get better at solving faster over time. Not all skills are even work related, but just challenging myself. Last month I learned to solve a Rubiks cube in spare time. I will not break any records and am not an expert, but I can solve it in a minute which is good enough. I move on to the next skill. I am not an expert at anything, but I have spent months doing a bit of everything at one point or another. I tend to identify risks most others miss from having breadth-first experience in how entire stacks fit together from kernel system calls to network packets to end user frontend javascript. I ended up pivoting to full time security engineering several years ago as a result. Security is in a lot more demand than devops/sysadmin these days but all sysadmins have experience in security. Something to consider.
revertmean 4y ago
I used to be called sysadmin, then I was DevOps, and now I'm SRE. They're all the same thing. Search for Senior SRE on Google, and you'll quickly find jobs that pay more than $220k.

giantg2 4y ago

I feel like this is toxic positivity. People can't just make as much as they want. There's always competition and other constraining factors. It's absolutely reasonable to say that you'll never make $220k (in 2022 $) as a dev when the median is $110k, regardless of one's attitude.

andsoitis 4y ago
> It's absolutely reasonable to say that you'll never make $220k (in 2022 $) as a dev when the median is $110k, regardless of one's attitude. If one's primary objective is to maximize income/money/wealth, then you should be prepared to be more flexible with the kind of work you do. There are many careers that pay more than my chosen career, but I am not interested in that work. Hell, it even applies within an industry. There are some companies in tech that have to pay a lot more to attract talent than other companies, because of their reputation, their culture, etc. You can choose to work there to make more money but it does not mean that other companies with better working conditions and more appealing products etc. should automatically match comp. Put differently, there can be many reasons why people choose one job, or career, over another. It is unreasonable to lament that your chosen work does not pay as much as another job, and more unreasonable to expect all jobs to pay similarly.
- giantg2 4y ago
  I don't see the part where all jobs are supposed to pay similarly. I think it's fair to bring up pay differences or that your employer is paying you less. That's how people become aware and get better comp. Staying quiet benefits the employer. Hell, it might even be a good reality check for some people on here who think there are enough high paying jobs for everyone (like all the kids thinking they'll be rockstars or play pro sports) that's not how stats, economics, and competitive markets work.
datavirtue 4y ago
Remove TATA, now what is the median?
- 4y ago