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I have a cousin who makes $220k as a crane operator at a port. I'll never make that much in my career.

by IaacForHire 4y ago

yrgulation 4y ago
A welder in london charges 700£ plus per day. A bit difficult to reach as a software engineer.
- hashar 4y ago
  My place has a large shipyard and as story I got told is that good welder lands there with a private jet, do their welding then fly to the next place. I am guessing good welders have a niche market as well.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Great story, because it demonstrates what people often fail to think about in salary: your hypothetical maximum salary is bounded by the amount of value you add to the finished product. If you're a key component (welder) in a high priced product (ship), the builder can compensate you $$$$ and still win. So they do. You can temporarily have unreasonably high pay (higher than value added), but eventually the market will figure it out. The only way to make outsized returns your entire career is to find a supply-limited, high-value-add niche.
  - doubled112 4y ago
    Welders that can weld underwater are scarce and compensated accordingly. My understanding is that it's dangerous and few want to do it.
    - riyadparvez 4y ago
      > My understanding is that it's dangerous and few want to do it. Yeah this is the part everyone is ignoring in the conversation. Many highly compensated physical labor jobs are highly compensated because of the associated risk. While being a developer (with exceptions) doesn't expose you to any physical risk.
      - mellavora 4y ago
        I hurt my little pinky finger programming. RSI is a real thing. but I don't think tech compensation is high because of risk of this type of injury. vs underwater welding, where the types of possible injuries have greater impact on overall health.
- nly 4y ago
  ~250 workdays a year = ~£175-180K/yr, which is fairly achievable in London for a SWE
- revertmean 4y ago
  Email I got yesterday: DevOps Engineer City of London, London, £600 - £700/day EDIT: Sorry, you did say Software Developer. How about this? https://www.cv-library.co.uk/job/217407072/Senior-Front-End-Developer https://www.cv-library.co.uk/job/217407072/Senior-Front-End-... £650 - £750/day Remote
- IaacForHire 4y ago
  Funny, this is my plan to get out of tech. I've been welding bicycle frames for five years (cumulative, over maybe a 10 year period). I'll probably leave tech for good at the end of the year and start a boutique bike frame company. EDIT: (clarified a timeframe)
  - potta_coffee 4y ago
    How can I learn this? It's a dream job for me. I tinker with bikes endlessly and I've lost all my hair in tech.
    - IaacForHire 4y ago
      I was first inspired by this video that a friend of a friend made for a boutique frame builder in California. http://soulcraftbikes.com http://soulcraftbikes.com A decade later I sold a company and spent 3 months in Portland at https://bikeschool.com/ https://bikeschool.com/. I took pretty much all of their classes. (Their wheel building seminar was fantastic, btw). Sadly they no longer teach welding, but the classes were fantastic. In each class you sized, laid out, machined and welded a bike. Started with lugged chromoly brazing, then chromoly fillet brazing, then chromoly tig, aluminum tin and finally titanium tig. Unfortunately there are no bike schools in the world which have as comprehensive as a program as bikeschool did. I think they lost most of their teachers during Covid. Hoping they recover. I ended up bringing 5 frames with me on the train home from PDX to Oakland. Over the next year I built another 15 frames for friends, then started a business building and selling custom, very durable bikes to overweight techies. It was great fun, we used to host weekend 25, 50 and 100 mile rides, nobody under 200lbs allowed. I lost $300 on every bike I made, but it was worth it. Check out Paul Brodie's videos on YouTube, I am hoping to do a master class with him next year. https://www.youtube.com/c/paulbrodie https://www.youtube.com/c/paulbrodie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2CnJ9lmlQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2CnJ9lmlQo really shows the beauty of fillet welding. Also, I'm going to take a carbon fiber class here: https://www.framebuildingschool.com https://www.framebuildingschool.com Long story short: Go buy a couple of the cheapest throw-away bicycle frames you can. Get a brazing setup, then spend a few weeks cutting them up and learning how to join tubes solidly. Everything else is easy after that.
lrvick 4y ago
Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.
- IaacForHire 4y ago
  As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling. Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    I'd never say this on Reddit, Facebook, or LinkedIn, but you're hanging out in Programmer Heaven right now, for fun, in your spare time. ANYONE hanging out here CAN definitely make a fat living in the SF Bay Area. Go out there and get rich!!! The only things I want to see you complaining about are interview loops, followed by the fact that you can barely afford a house on your $300k/year total compensation
    - IaacForHire 4y ago
      I wish I had your enthusiasm. I've been unemployed 90% of the time since Covid. Ironically, I've given at least 5 people their start in this industry who are all now worth 8 figures. There are haves and there are have nots.
      - iLoveOncall 4y ago
        Seems like the "not with that attitude" comment was spot on.
        IaacForHire 4y ago
        Yes, you're right. After 25 years of mostly being treated like shit by start-ups with an average weekly work rate of 60 hours, my attitude is probably kind of bad. Do I really need to be a rockstar to get an inflationary raise every year? Take cost of living into account and we make about 40% less than we did 20 years ago.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
What is the qualify of life at work like for a crane operator? Do their mistakes cost immediate loss of life, possibly even for themself? Do they work evenings, nights, and weekends? Can they work from home, or move to a new country at a whim?
- giantg2 4y ago
  Do they have crushing expectations placed on them and are expected to be connected 24/7?
  - juve1996 4y ago
    The railroads in the US are close to striking because they only get 1 random day off per month. 353/365 days working. Yea, I'll take the occasional phone call at 1 AM for a production down over that.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      "Rail employees are provided with significant time off. Generally, train crew employees have over three to four weeks of paid vacation and over 10 personal leave days. Depending on craft and seniority, these numbers can extend to five weeks of vacation in addition to 14 paid holidays and/or paid leave days,” BNSF told CNBC. “The number of Personal Leave Days was increased by 25% this year which makes it easier for employees to take time off.”
      - juve1996 4y ago
        "A crucial issue in the dispute is a points-based attendance policy adopted by some of the largest carriers earlier this year. Those policies penalize workers, up to termination, for going to routine doctor’s visits or attending to family emergencies. Conductors and engineers say that they can be on call for 14 consecutive days without a break and that they do not receive a single sick day, paid or unpaid. “All we’re asking is folks to be able to go to routine doctor’s visits without pay, but they have refused to accept our proposals,” Dennis Pierce, president of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen (BLET) said before the deal was struck. “The average American would not know that we get fired for going to the doctor. This one thing has our members most enraged. We have guys who were punished for taking time off for a heart attack and covid. It’s inhumane.”" Yes go be that instead of a SWE.
tdumitrescu 4y ago
From your other replies here you sound a bit burned out. 220 is easily within the reach of devops people in the modern software industry, and certainly not just at the big-name tech companies. But you do have to work for _some_ kind of decently-funded company if you want it as a salary rather than doing your own thing (consulting etc).
newaccount2021 4y ago

I have a cousin who makes $220k as a crane operator at a port. I'll never make that much in my career.

yrgulation 4y ago

A welder in london charges 700£ plus per day. A bit difficult to reach as a software engineer.

hashar 4y ago
My place has a large shipyard and as story I got told is that good welder lands there with a private jet, do their welding then fly to the next place. I am guessing good welders have a niche market as well.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Great story, because it demonstrates what people often fail to think about in salary: your hypothetical maximum salary is bounded by the amount of value you add to the finished product. If you're a key component (welder) in a high priced product (ship), the builder can compensate you $$$$ and still win. So they do. You can temporarily have unreasonably high pay (higher than value added), but eventually the market will figure it out. The only way to make outsized returns your entire career is to find a supply-limited, high-value-add niche.
- doubled112 4y ago
  Welders that can weld underwater are scarce and compensated accordingly. My understanding is that it's dangerous and few want to do it.
  - riyadparvez 4y ago
    > My understanding is that it's dangerous and few want to do it. Yeah this is the part everyone is ignoring in the conversation. Many highly compensated physical labor jobs are highly compensated because of the associated risk. While being a developer (with exceptions) doesn't expose you to any physical risk.
    - mellavora 4y ago
      I hurt my little pinky finger programming. RSI is a real thing. but I don't think tech compensation is high because of risk of this type of injury. vs underwater welding, where the types of possible injuries have greater impact on overall health.
nly 4y ago
~250 workdays a year = ~£175-180K/yr, which is fairly achievable in London for a SWE
revertmean 4y ago
Email I got yesterday: DevOps Engineer City of London, London, £600 - £700/day EDIT: Sorry, you did say Software Developer. How about this? https://www.cv-library.co.uk/job/217407072/Senior-Front-End-Developer https://www.cv-library.co.uk/job/217407072/Senior-Front-End-... £650 - £750/day Remote
IaacForHire 4y ago
Funny, this is my plan to get out of tech. I've been welding bicycle frames for five years (cumulative, over maybe a 10 year period). I'll probably leave tech for good at the end of the year and start a boutique bike frame company. EDIT: (clarified a timeframe)
- potta_coffee 4y ago
  How can I learn this? It's a dream job for me. I tinker with bikes endlessly and I've lost all my hair in tech.
  - IaacForHire 4y ago
    I was first inspired by this video that a friend of a friend made for a boutique frame builder in California. http://soulcraftbikes.com http://soulcraftbikes.com A decade later I sold a company and spent 3 months in Portland at https://bikeschool.com/ https://bikeschool.com/. I took pretty much all of their classes. (Their wheel building seminar was fantastic, btw). Sadly they no longer teach welding, but the classes were fantastic. In each class you sized, laid out, machined and welded a bike. Started with lugged chromoly brazing, then chromoly fillet brazing, then chromoly tig, aluminum tin and finally titanium tig. Unfortunately there are no bike schools in the world which have as comprehensive as a program as bikeschool did. I think they lost most of their teachers during Covid. Hoping they recover. I ended up bringing 5 frames with me on the train home from PDX to Oakland. Over the next year I built another 15 frames for friends, then started a business building and selling custom, very durable bikes to overweight techies. It was great fun, we used to host weekend 25, 50 and 100 mile rides, nobody under 200lbs allowed. I lost $300 on every bike I made, but it was worth it. Check out Paul Brodie's videos on YouTube, I am hoping to do a master class with him next year. https://www.youtube.com/c/paulbrodie https://www.youtube.com/c/paulbrodie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2CnJ9lmlQo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2CnJ9lmlQo really shows the beauty of fillet welding. Also, I'm going to take a carbon fiber class here: https://www.framebuildingschool.com https://www.framebuildingschool.com Long story short: Go buy a couple of the cheapest throw-away bicycle frames you can. Get a brazing setup, then spend a few weeks cutting them up and learning how to join tubes solidly. Everything else is easy after that.

lrvick 4y ago

Not with that attitude. If you are healthy, have people skills, and are capable of learning new things regularly then you can generally make as much as you want in this industry.

IaacForHire 4y ago
As a Sysadmin/DevOps engineer, I am expected to be an expert in some new paradigm every 2 years which I have done consistently for 25 years. Working hard and doing solid, consistent, useful work isn't enough to break through a salary ceiling. Not everybody is an influencer, an MIT grad or a genius.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  I'd never say this on Reddit, Facebook, or LinkedIn, but you're hanging out in Programmer Heaven right now, for fun, in your spare time. ANYONE hanging out here CAN definitely make a fat living in the SF Bay Area. Go out there and get rich!!! The only things I want to see you complaining about are interview loops, followed by the fact that you can barely afford a house on your $300k/year total compensation
  - IaacForHire 4y ago
    I wish I had your enthusiasm. I've been unemployed 90% of the time since Covid. Ironically, I've given at least 5 people their start in this industry who are all now worth 8 figures. There are haves and there are have nots.
    - iLoveOncall 4y ago
      Seems like the "not with that attitude" comment was spot on.
      - IaacForHire 4y ago
        Yes, you're right. After 25 years of mostly being treated like shit by start-ups with an average weekly work rate of 60 hours, my attitude is probably kind of bad. Do I really need to be a rockstar to get an inflationary raise every year? Take cost of living into account and we make about 40% less than we did 20 years ago.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

What is the qualify of life at work like for a crane operator? Do their mistakes cost immediate loss of life, possibly even for themself? Do they work evenings, nights, and weekends? Can they work from home, or move to a new country at a whim?

giantg2 4y ago
Do they have crushing expectations placed on them and are expected to be connected 24/7?
- juve1996 4y ago
  The railroads in the US are close to striking because they only get 1 random day off per month. 353/365 days working. Yea, I'll take the occasional phone call at 1 AM for a production down over that.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "Rail employees are provided with significant time off. Generally, train crew employees have over three to four weeks of paid vacation and over 10 personal leave days. Depending on craft and seniority, these numbers can extend to five weeks of vacation in addition to 14 paid holidays and/or paid leave days,” BNSF told CNBC. “The number of Personal Leave Days was increased by 25% this year which makes it easier for employees to take time off.”
    - juve1996 4y ago
      "A crucial issue in the dispute is a points-based attendance policy adopted by some of the largest carriers earlier this year. Those policies penalize workers, up to termination, for going to routine doctor’s visits or attending to family emergencies. Conductors and engineers say that they can be on call for 14 consecutive days without a break and that they do not receive a single sick day, paid or unpaid. “All we’re asking is folks to be able to go to routine doctor’s visits without pay, but they have refused to accept our proposals,” Dennis Pierce, president of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen (BLET) said before the deal was struck. “The average American would not know that we get fired for going to the doctor. This one thing has our members most enraged. We have guys who were punished for taking time off for a heart attack and covid. It’s inhumane.”" Yes go be that instead of a SWE.

tdumitrescu 4y ago

From your other replies here you sound a bit burned out. 220 is easily within the reach of devops people in the modern software industry, and certainly not just at the big-name tech companies. But you do have to work for _some_ kind of decently-funded company if you want it as a salary rather than doing your own thing (consulting etc).

newaccount2021 4y ago