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That's a hard question. I'm in Denmark, which is notoriously expensive, and I'd say that even $120K for Sr DevOps is a bit on the high end. There where a perio

That's a hard question. I'm in Denmark, which is notoriously expensive, and I'd say that even $120K for Sr DevOps is a bit on the high end. There where a period of time with large "year on year" jumps in pay from 2010 to 2018 (something like that). That does seem to have cooled of in the past four years. I did see a brief surge in positions offered and higher wages last year, but that stopped in during spring time this year. My guess is that it's either a reaction to salaries already being high or the general economic slowdown, in some areas. Again it might very well depend on your location, but the positions offered are also changing. I see more and more operations related position, and generally jobs postings a from companies that aren't software companies as such,. They are just companies that needs developer for internal project or software as part of a larger system. The positions I see are very much: "We have a job that needs to get done, and just need an additional developer (or systems administrator)". There are much less of crazy "We're changing the world and are looking for ninja-pirate-elite-10x-super hackers", and the former simply pays less.

yrgulation 4y ago
Issue in denmark is that high pay gets heavily taxed. So 102k is what 50k at best? Factor in vat and its less.
- coffee_beqn 4y ago
  True but you also get more “free” services for your tax payments - especially if you have kids.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Like anywhere in europe, and if you want quality or quick service you go private.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  Why would that push salaries down? Should they be even higher in that case?
  - IaacForHire 4y ago
    A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      I left denmark many moons ago for the same reason. Tipping point was when i wanted to buy a car. When i was the amount in tax i basically packed and left. Somehow people think that denmark is expensive because somehow products are better quality, but they arent really. It’s just high taxes. At hospitals you have to wait in long queues for anything serious and universities are meh. Paid for my public uk degree a very tiny amount and was rather happy with it.
      - IaacForHire 4y ago
        I feel you on this. I live in the 3rd world (Turkiye) and have been itching to buy a motorcycle lately. The $26k BMW 1250RT I want costs $35k here, and another $20k in taxes.
      - Melchori 4y ago
        So as soon as you were paying back into your country you decided enough is enough and moved to a country with much higher social inequality? Okay good for you but a weird brag. One of my main reason not to go to USA is exactly that. I don't want to earn lots of money while my country people have to go to a Sporthall to get their teeth fixed once a year because you need to be special to go to a dentist.
        goodpoint 4y ago
        > enough is enough and moved to a country with much higher social inequality? "screw you I got mine"
    - mrweasel 4y ago
      That's not how our tax system works. There are different intervals, so at some point you need to pay a higher percentage, but only of the amount above that point. This year it's 552.500DKK, anything you make ABOVE that, is taxed an additional 15%. So a raise will never leave you with less money. The amount is also adjusted yearly, so next year it normally higher, meaning that you are effectively taxed less. It is true that if you're only getting 35 - 40% of that raise, because the rest is just taxes, it might be of greater value to you to get more vacation time. Benefits are a little tricky, because they are taxed as well. I believe you could do extra pension, because that's taxed when it's paid out.
- silvestrov 4y ago
  So very wrong. $102k/year = DKK 759288/year = DKK 63274/month. Typing 63274 into https://hvormegetefterskat.dk https://hvormegetefterskat.dk (howmuchaftertax) says 40.2% tax rate. The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    There is no such thing as “free services”. You paid for them through taxes. Also you need to factor in vat and everything else being expensive due to taxes. Dont get me wrong, denmark looks great, but as many “rich” west eu countries the country is rich but the people arent.
    - silvestrov 4y ago
      And you need to factor in that Danish people do not need to pay for health services. $50k after tax in Denmark needs to pay for fewer expenses than $50k after tax in USA. So it is not a valid comparison to just compare income tax and VAT. In this case Denmark ends up not being more expensive for a nice middle class life. It's just that ill-informed people thinks otherwise. Quality of life in Denmark is higher: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-...
  - IaacForHire 4y ago
    > The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year. This sounds great if you're the type to have a family. Otherwise, seems like you kind of get screwed?
    - mdorazio 4y ago
      Compared to what? In California I was paying a full 35% effective tax rate on top of something like 3000 a year in health insurance/deductibles and still had a sizable homeless camp on my street. Plus if I wanted to go back to school for an advanced degree the cost was a joke. In the US you can definitely bring home more dollars in absolute terms, but I've found if you actually compare total life costs and standards of living you end up at fairly similar % between SV and Europe.

yrgulation 4y ago

Issue in denmark is that high pay gets heavily taxed. So 102k is what 50k at best? Factor in vat and its less.

coffee_beqn 4y ago
True but you also get more “free” services for your tax payments - especially if you have kids.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Like anywhere in europe, and if you want quality or quick service you go private.
mrweasel 4y ago
Why would that push salaries down? Should they be even higher in that case?
- IaacForHire 4y ago
  A few years ago a Danish friend of mine said she'd hit a point where it wasn't worth taking a raise because of the progressive taxation system, and so instead she would negotiate for more benefits.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    I left denmark many moons ago for the same reason. Tipping point was when i wanted to buy a car. When i was the amount in tax i basically packed and left. Somehow people think that denmark is expensive because somehow products are better quality, but they arent really. It’s just high taxes. At hospitals you have to wait in long queues for anything serious and universities are meh. Paid for my public uk degree a very tiny amount and was rather happy with it.
    - IaacForHire 4y ago
      I feel you on this. I live in the 3rd world (Turkiye) and have been itching to buy a motorcycle lately. The $26k BMW 1250RT I want costs $35k here, and another $20k in taxes.
    - Melchori 4y ago
      So as soon as you were paying back into your country you decided enough is enough and moved to a country with much higher social inequality? Okay good for you but a weird brag. One of my main reason not to go to USA is exactly that. I don't want to earn lots of money while my country people have to go to a Sporthall to get their teeth fixed once a year because you need to be special to go to a dentist.
      - goodpoint 4y ago
        > enough is enough and moved to a country with much higher social inequality? "screw you I got mine"
  - mrweasel 4y ago
    That's not how our tax system works. There are different intervals, so at some point you need to pay a higher percentage, but only of the amount above that point. This year it's 552.500DKK, anything you make ABOVE that, is taxed an additional 15%. So a raise will never leave you with less money. The amount is also adjusted yearly, so next year it normally higher, meaning that you are effectively taxed less. It is true that if you're only getting 35 - 40% of that raise, because the rest is just taxes, it might be of greater value to you to get more vacation time. Benefits are a little tricky, because they are taxed as well. I believe you could do extra pension, because that's taxed when it's paid out.
silvestrov 4y ago
So very wrong. $102k/year = DKK 759288/year = DKK 63274/month. Typing 63274 into https://hvormegetefterskat.dk https://hvormegetefterskat.dk (howmuchaftertax) says 40.2% tax rate. The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  There is no such thing as “free services”. You paid for them through taxes. Also you need to factor in vat and everything else being expensive due to taxes. Dont get me wrong, denmark looks great, but as many “rich” west eu countries the country is rich but the people arent.
  - silvestrov 4y ago
    And you need to factor in that Danish people do not need to pay for health services. $50k after tax in Denmark needs to pay for fewer expenses than $50k after tax in USA. So it is not a valid comparison to just compare income tax and VAT. In this case Denmark ends up not being more expensive for a nice middle class life. It's just that ill-informed people thinks otherwise. Quality of life in Denmark is higher: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-...
- IaacForHire 4y ago
  > The you have to factor in $0 in health costs (gratis hospital and doctor visits), no payments for kids attending university, 32 weeks of paid maternal leave, and 5 weeks of mandatory holiday each year. This sounds great if you're the type to have a family. Otherwise, seems like you kind of get screwed?
  - mdorazio 4y ago
    Compared to what? In California I was paying a full 35% effective tax rate on top of something like 3000 a year in health insurance/deductibles and still had a sizable homeless camp on my street. Plus if I wanted to go back to school for an advanced degree the cost was a joke. In the US you can definitely bring home more dollars in absolute terms, but I've found if you actually compare total life costs and standards of living you end up at fairly similar % between SV and Europe.