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For something that millions of people across the world rely on, with million+ transactions daily, it's definitely worth celebrating. It's using a magnitude less

For something that millions of people across the world rely on, with million+ transactions daily, it's definitely worth celebrating. It's using a magnitude less energy now than YouTube or Netflix [1] If YouTube had a similar decrease in energy, Hacker News would be all over it. https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/#proof-of-stake-energy https://ethereum.org/en/energy-consumption/#proof-of-stake-e...

dmitriid 4y ago
> For something that millions of people across the world rely on People keep claiming that millions of people rely on it is such a bullshit claim > with million+ transactions daily Which is a paltry 11 transactions per second. I think a Raspberry Pi is now capable of the same amazing feat. > It's using a magnitude less energy now than YouTube or Netflix And doing orders of magnitudes less while consuming insane amounts of energy. Had Ethereum tried to move around as much video as Youtube and Netflix are doing, heat death of the universe would happen the next day after the attempt.
- dannyw 4y ago
  Can your Raspberry Pi synchronize with other Pis in a permissionless way, and agree on a shared state despite malicious actors?
  - mort96 4y ago
    Can nodes in Etherium? Or is there a central governing body there which has the power to revert legitimate transactions, just like in traditional systems? https://levelup.gitconnected.com/how-ethereum-reversed-a-50-million-dao-attack-cee528d8c030 https://levelup.gitconnected.com/how-ethereum-reversed-a-50-... Oh. But hey, at least it's an unregulated, informal, ad-hoc process in Etherium with no justice system or oversight to enforce the rights of the little guy.
    - ikt 4y ago
      You do know you just compared ethereum when it was in its bootstrapping phase to now when it has millions of users and projects right? and you do know a group of people tried to have the same thing done again a few years ago and it failed right?
    - ETH_start 4y ago
      The DAO hard fork was an exceptional event that occurred in 2015, under very unique circumstances inherent to the world's first smart contract platform experiencing the world's first major smart contract hack, and has not been repeated since. Ethereum at this point - with seven years of autonomous operation and no repeats of DAO-like hard forks - has proven to be an immutable and credibly neutral settlement layer.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    You're pretending that tech is more important than the uses of that tech or the outcomes. Which is doubly ironic because the comment above compared Ethereum to Youtube and Netflix. The 99.999999999% of use cases for Ethereum (or for Blockchains in general) can be easily handled if not by a single Raspberry Pi, but at least by a modern laptop. Because those use cases are currency speculation, buying useless shit, and asset hoarding. The remaining arguably useful usecases are an exchange of IOUs.
shafyy 4y ago
Sure, let's compare the utility of Ethereum to YouTube or Netflix. You must be kidding.
- yebyen 4y ago
  You underestimate the utility of a global financial system which can be participated in by anyone. This makes many tools and processes (leveraged financial instruments and automated market makers) available without an intermediate third party that most humans would never know existed, let alone how to use. They are still in their infancy, the investment in knowledge that is required to use them well remains quite substantial. How many years before a regular person can ditch the bank for their own personal hedge DAO? I'm afraid you are the one who must be kidding, if you think that internet TV is more important than leveling the financial playing field.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    > How many years before a regular person can ditch the bank for their own personal hedge DAO? That will never happen, since these things, by design, offer none of the guarantees that banks do.
    - yebyen 4y ago
      I absolutely love overdraft fees. I've never used a bank that didn't have some ridiculous scheme of their own which you had to internalize or pay a monthly fee. Banks offer some guarantees, but they're not really helping most people. Neither is Ethereum, maybe you'll say, but I didn't come here to argue about that. This is a day to celebrate because the #1 top complaint of all crypto detractors has been addressed by Crypto's second largest collective. Now that is finished we can move onto #2 top complaint, whatever that will be. I certainly do not imagine, foresee, or desire to live in a world in which people must protect their private keys or forfeit their house to a hacker. But can you really say we aren't headed there now? Is the alternative better, (that you have to trust the bank's security? Are you in the US? Oh god, I have some bad news...) Acting like scams began in 2008 when Bitcoin was first invented is the ultimate scam. I grew up in NY, we've all been getting scammed our entire lives, by the government too.

dmitriid 4y ago

> For something that millions of people across the world rely on People keep claiming that millions of people rely on it is such a bullshit claim > with million+ transactions daily Which is a paltry 11 transactions per second. I think a Raspberry Pi is now capable of the same amazing feat. > It's using a magnitude less energy now than YouTube or Netflix And doing orders of magnitudes less while consuming insane amounts of energy. Had Ethereum tried to move around as much video as Youtube and Netflix are doing, heat death of the universe would happen the next day after the attempt.

dannyw 4y ago
Can your Raspberry Pi synchronize with other Pis in a permissionless way, and agree on a shared state despite malicious actors?
- mort96 4y ago
  Can nodes in Etherium? Or is there a central governing body there which has the power to revert legitimate transactions, just like in traditional systems? https://levelup.gitconnected.com/how-ethereum-reversed-a-50-million-dao-attack-cee528d8c030 https://levelup.gitconnected.com/how-ethereum-reversed-a-50-... Oh. But hey, at least it's an unregulated, informal, ad-hoc process in Etherium with no justice system or oversight to enforce the rights of the little guy.
  - ikt 4y ago
    You do know you just compared ethereum when it was in its bootstrapping phase to now when it has millions of users and projects right? and you do know a group of people tried to have the same thing done again a few years ago and it failed right?
  - ETH_start 4y ago
    The DAO hard fork was an exceptional event that occurred in 2015, under very unique circumstances inherent to the world's first smart contract platform experiencing the world's first major smart contract hack, and has not been repeated since. Ethereum at this point - with seven years of autonomous operation and no repeats of DAO-like hard forks - has proven to be an immutable and credibly neutral settlement layer.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  You're pretending that tech is more important than the uses of that tech or the outcomes. Which is doubly ironic because the comment above compared Ethereum to Youtube and Netflix. The 99.999999999% of use cases for Ethereum (or for Blockchains in general) can be easily handled if not by a single Raspberry Pi, but at least by a modern laptop. Because those use cases are currency speculation, buying useless shit, and asset hoarding. The remaining arguably useful usecases are an exchange of IOUs.

shafyy 4y ago

Sure, let's compare the utility of Ethereum to YouTube or Netflix. You must be kidding.

yebyen 4y ago
You underestimate the utility of a global financial system which can be participated in by anyone. This makes many tools and processes (leveraged financial instruments and automated market makers) available without an intermediate third party that most humans would never know existed, let alone how to use. They are still in their infancy, the investment in knowledge that is required to use them well remains quite substantial. How many years before a regular person can ditch the bank for their own personal hedge DAO? I'm afraid you are the one who must be kidding, if you think that internet TV is more important than leveling the financial playing field.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  > How many years before a regular person can ditch the bank for their own personal hedge DAO? That will never happen, since these things, by design, offer none of the guarantees that banks do.
  - yebyen 4y ago
    I absolutely love overdraft fees. I've never used a bank that didn't have some ridiculous scheme of their own which you had to internalize or pay a monthly fee. Banks offer some guarantees, but they're not really helping most people. Neither is Ethereum, maybe you'll say, but I didn't come here to argue about that. This is a day to celebrate because the #1 top complaint of all crypto detractors has been addressed by Crypto's second largest collective. Now that is finished we can move onto #2 top complaint, whatever that will be. I certainly do not imagine, foresee, or desire to live in a world in which people must protect their private keys or forfeit their house to a hacker. But can you really say we aren't headed there now? Is the alternative better, (that you have to trust the bank's security? Are you in the US? Oh god, I have some bad news...) Acting like scams began in 2008 when Bitcoin was first invented is the ultimate scam. I grew up in NY, we've all been getting scammed our entire lives, by the government too.