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The validator of the first proof of stake block earned just over 45 ETH as everyone clamored to get their transaction in this historic block: https://etherscan

by pshc 4y ago

The validator of the first proof of stake block earned just over 45 ETH as everyone clamored to get their transaction in this historic block: https://etherscan.io/block/15537394 https://etherscan.io/block/15537394

jazzyjackson 4y ago
The validator is randomly chosen, no? So we essentially have a lottery as a banking system now?
- duskwuff 4y ago
  Worse: a lottery for the rich. Validators are required to stake at least 32 ETH (~$52k USD) to participate.
  - AgentME 4y ago
    There are validator pools that let people stake smaller values.
  - tsujp 4y ago
    This is categorically incorrect. You can have any amount of ETH (up to 32 because there's no value in going higher) and be a validator participant if you partake in a pool.
    - duskwuff 4y ago
      As I understand it, staking ETH in a pool doesn't mean you get to act as a validator in any capacity. That's handled by whoever is running the pool.
      - samatman 4y ago
        Sure, but that doesn't make the difference between getting a lottery ticket and not getting one. If you have 1 ETH in the pool when the validator hits, you get the corresponding fraction of the award, minus the pool fee.
  - rakoo 4y ago
    And more money at stake gives you more participation. It's not just a lottery for the rich, it's Capitalism unmasked
  - gambiting 4y ago
    I mean......isn't that any lottery? People who buy 100k lotto tickets have an undeniably higher chance of winning than people who bought a single ticket. Here it's the same - the higher your stake the higher the chances. But you don't need to stake all 32 eth to participate.
- AgentME 4y ago
  There's a new block about every 13 seconds. Each validator will get its share of "wins" over time.
- sour-taste 4y ago
  That was true with proof of work too. The merge doesn't change it.
  - once_inc 4y ago
    In theory, yes. But in practice, most miners have joined a mining pool. Mining pools allow miners to share in the rewards, which means they have a vastly more predictable income per block. A solo miner would probably not have a statistically significant chance of finding a single block for the next 100 years, while pooled miners earn bitcoin through finding blocks roughly equivalent to the mining pools relative size compared with the total hash rate. Since mining is a cutthroat, bleeding edge, hypercompetitive system, that means dependability and stability are very important.
  - konschubert 4y ago
    PoW was a system where you could buy lottery tickets by investing capital. PoS is the same, except it doesn’t ALSO burn electricity that needs to be paid for by parts of the mining rewards.
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      PoW was worse because it had an economy of scale. For example, it is far cheaper to add mining power if you already own a big mining centre or buy ASICs in bulk. PoS does not have this: your rewards are always linear to the amount of ETH you stake. This means that, while PoS is still controlled by those with the most money, it does not trend to centralisation as harshly as PoW.
      - konschubert 4y ago
        Yes, that’s correct.
      - jcbrand 4y ago
        Pos is controlled by those with the most money, and they continuously gain more money through staking rewards (i.e. the rich control the system and automatically get richer). With PoW, you have to sell/spend some of the coins you earn in order to pay for operation expenditures. PoS is more centralizing.
- tomtomistaken 4y ago
  I wouldn't call it lottery. In a lottery, you have to buy a ticket.
- miohtama 4y ago
  It's not "lottery as a banking system", because there are rules for validators for failing over and others replacing them. This is what complex consensus mechanisms are about - how to have 100% uptime instead of few nines. The system has built in incentives for the operators to keep it running smoothly, but still not being unable to change or reject the transaction payloads, like PayPal or banking system could.
colinsane 4y ago
the majority of transactions in that block paid about 0.01 ETH tx fee ($20). 4 transactions were over 1 ETH. 1 single transaction paid a fee of 37 ETH: https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5ad934ee3bf2f8938d8518a3b978e81f178eaa21824ee52fef83338f786e7b59 https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5ad934ee3bf2f8938d8518a3b978e81f17... i’m thinking it was a single person who just really wanted to be the first tx on the PoS chain. i’m not versed to decode transactions well — i wouldn’t be surprised if it was somebody making a “first PoS transaction” NFT or something.
- miracle2k 4y ago
  Yes, it is this one: https://opensea.io/collection/thetransition https://opensea.io/collection/thetransition

by pshc 4y ago

jazzyjackson 4y ago

The validator is randomly chosen, no? So we essentially have a lottery as a banking system now?

duskwuff 4y ago
Worse: a lottery for the rich. Validators are required to stake at least 32 ETH (~$52k USD) to participate.
- AgentME 4y ago
  There are validator pools that let people stake smaller values.
- tsujp 4y ago
  This is categorically incorrect. You can have any amount of ETH (up to 32 because there's no value in going higher) and be a validator participant if you partake in a pool.
  - duskwuff 4y ago
    As I understand it, staking ETH in a pool doesn't mean you get to act as a validator in any capacity. That's handled by whoever is running the pool.
    - samatman 4y ago
      Sure, but that doesn't make the difference between getting a lottery ticket and not getting one. If you have 1 ETH in the pool when the validator hits, you get the corresponding fraction of the award, minus the pool fee.
- rakoo 4y ago
  And more money at stake gives you more participation. It's not just a lottery for the rich, it's Capitalism unmasked
- gambiting 4y ago
  I mean......isn't that any lottery? People who buy 100k lotto tickets have an undeniably higher chance of winning than people who bought a single ticket. Here it's the same - the higher your stake the higher the chances. But you don't need to stake all 32 eth to participate.
AgentME 4y ago
There's a new block about every 13 seconds. Each validator will get its share of "wins" over time.
sour-taste 4y ago
That was true with proof of work too. The merge doesn't change it.
- once_inc 4y ago
  In theory, yes. But in practice, most miners have joined a mining pool. Mining pools allow miners to share in the rewards, which means they have a vastly more predictable income per block. A solo miner would probably not have a statistically significant chance of finding a single block for the next 100 years, while pooled miners earn bitcoin through finding blocks roughly equivalent to the mining pools relative size compared with the total hash rate. Since mining is a cutthroat, bleeding edge, hypercompetitive system, that means dependability and stability are very important.
- konschubert 4y ago
  PoW was a system where you could buy lottery tickets by investing capital. PoS is the same, except it doesn’t ALSO burn electricity that needs to be paid for by parts of the mining rewards.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    PoW was worse because it had an economy of scale. For example, it is far cheaper to add mining power if you already own a big mining centre or buy ASICs in bulk. PoS does not have this: your rewards are always linear to the amount of ETH you stake. This means that, while PoS is still controlled by those with the most money, it does not trend to centralisation as harshly as PoW.
    - konschubert 4y ago
      Yes, that’s correct.
    - jcbrand 4y ago
      Pos is controlled by those with the most money, and they continuously gain more money through staking rewards (i.e. the rich control the system and automatically get richer). With PoW, you have to sell/spend some of the coins you earn in order to pay for operation expenditures. PoS is more centralizing.
tomtomistaken 4y ago
I wouldn't call it lottery. In a lottery, you have to buy a ticket.
miohtama 4y ago
It's not "lottery as a banking system", because there are rules for validators for failing over and others replacing them. This is what complex consensus mechanisms are about - how to have 100% uptime instead of few nines. The system has built in incentives for the operators to keep it running smoothly, but still not being unable to change or reject the transaction payloads, like PayPal or banking system could.

colinsane 4y ago

the majority of transactions in that block paid about 0.01 ETH tx fee ($20). 4 transactions were over 1 ETH. 1 single transaction paid a fee of 37 ETH: https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5ad934ee3bf2f8938d8518a3b978e81f178eaa21824ee52fef83338f786e7b59 https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5ad934ee3bf2f8938d8518a3b978e81f17... i’m thinking it was a single person who just really wanted to be the first tx on the PoS chain. i’m not versed to decode transactions well — i wouldn’t be surprised if it was somebody making a “first PoS transaction” NFT or something.

miracle2k 4y ago
Yes, it is this one: https://opensea.io/collection/thetransition https://opensea.io/collection/thetransition