8 ms·

For kids over 1 year, some sanity saving notes (I have more than 4 kids, was about to go crazy when I got my second and then learned the things below): - every

For kids over 1 year, some sanity saving notes (I have more than 4 kids, was about to go crazy when I got my second and then learned the things below): - everyone wakes halfway up multiple times each night to see if everything is OK. Make sure they don't fall asleep with anything that can't stay with them during the night: music, tv, light, food, drink or another person (you or others). - to teach kids to sleep, make them feel safe about it. What I did was walking in at a fixed schedule, starting at exact 3 minutes between the first night (I used a digital kitchen timer back then, a smartphone later) and increasing by two minutes every night. Surprisingly fast, my kids learn that I didn't disappear, and he'll be around even if they don't cry. Once they realized this they started playing with the toy the were allowed to keep in the bed. But, keep in mind: don't stop coming back if they are silent. A major part of the idea is that they realize that they don't have to do anything to make sure we don't forget them. Oh: and keep a very close ear with them in the beginning so they don't wake up and think they are alone. I never really could get myself to accept the idea that "they need to cry themselves to sleep" and every thing I tried before this didn't work on my oldest. This worked on my oldest kid, she started sleeping through the night within a week and also became calmer and I got my sleep back. With the rest of them it took 2-3 days only since I started earlier (shortly after they was a year old). Maybe other methods work too, but this was easy for us and we didn't have to let the kids cry to sleep or anything else I have seen recommended online that I didn't like.

bboygravity 4y ago
Is this Elon's secret account? :p
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- iamacyborg 4y ago
  Na, he’s talking about parenting, not fathering
danw1979 4y ago
The visiting the room at regular intervals works great. I only have two, and left it late with both. 5yo just fell asleep on his own for the first time a few weeks ago, still hates the idea, but doesn’t scream at least, now he knows I’ve not abandoned him…
- prox 4y ago
  Why have kids (if I read these comments) have such an ingrained idea that you will abandoning them? Is that subconscious, and/or just an emotional response? As in, why would they not presume the inverse (that you will always be there)?
  - burnished 4y ago
    I suspect that there were evolutionary pressures at play here.
  - iib 4y ago
    I assume it is more of the "if the parent leaves me, I am going to die" reflex that is ingrained in babies, so the danger is great enough to warrant panic, even though it is improbable. Plus, very young kids don't have object permanence.
    - aitchnyu 4y ago
      I heard of a parent telling a young kid that beyond the turn on the road there is a Foobarator, and kid dutifully keeps within safe distance without knowing what's a Foobarator nor what threat it poses. I remember at age 7 being afraid of tigers and dinosaurs at night, sometimes I watched tall coconut trees. I also asked my mum if she will abandon me for a mistake.
  - specialp 4y ago
    Infants especially sleep BETTER when there is noise and people around. For an adult noise means something is possibly coming to harm you and your family at night so it awakens you. For an infant, lack of noise means abandonment and the response is to cry as infants are helpless without their parents
markdown 4y ago
Putting an infant alone in a room of their own seems to be an exclusively western practice and is completely foreign to me. 3500 American babies due suddenly and unexpectedly from SIDS every year. I wonder if there is any research into where these babies were sleeping when they died. Am I an idiot for wondering if they died from the sheer terror of waking up alone in a dark room?
- thargor90 4y ago
  This is not how SIDS works. Children just stop breathing. Some newer research suggests this is a genetic issue. Of course there is misdiagnosis for children that suffocate because of toys/blankets.
  - dzhiurgis 4y ago
    Everyone stops breathing sometimes, but SIDS babies lack certain hormone that causes reaction (start wiggling to remove pillow or start screaming). IIRC Australian scientists identified the marker recently.
    - d1sxeyes 4y ago
      Sort of. Australian scientists discovered there is a correlation between low levels of the enzyme BChE and increased SIDS risk. It's worth noting that there's a fair bit of evidence that actually points to AChE rather than BChE, but AChE is much more volatile and so harder to measure. It's a particularly interesting finding because we already know that low levels of BChE correspond to an additional challenges waking up from anaesthetic, and the working hypothesis is that this may be linked to the arousal system. One other potential link is to SUDEP (Sudden Unexpected Death in Epilepsy), which so far we also don't understand the cause of, but it may be similar to SIDS (or in fact, it may even be the exact same condition) - it often presents very similarly (face down in bed, no obvious signs of suffocation, etc.). In fact, in Australia and New Zealand, SIDS is being renamed to SUDI (Sudden Unexpected Death in Infancy), which sort of speaks for itself in terms of similarities.
- cycomanic 4y ago
t0mas88 4y ago
We did the same and there is one big contradiction between this and the research linked: you're not holding them or walking until they sleep, you let the kids fall asleep on their own with the confidence that you'll be back. In my country you get a monthly check in with experts for the first 6 months and then less frequently. Mostly to weigh and check growth and arrange shots etc. But they also take some time to discuss how things are going and publish a booklet per age group with advice to parents. Their advice (based on other research) is to strongly avoid holding your child until she sleeps and instead recommend exactly what you did. The reason is that if you are holding the baby, they fall asleep and then wake a bit or switch to lighter sleep some time later (like every human does periodically every night) they will encounter a different environment and the holding prent is gone. That's going to wake them up fully and get confused. So now you have a crying baby in the middle of the night that you need to hold again to get back to sleep. While if they fall asleep in their bed, feeling safe that you'll be around, a few hours later if they wake up they'll determine that everything is still OK and as they expect it to be, and continue sleeping.
- taneq 4y ago
  On a related note, if you sit with them while they're going to sleep, make sure it's "for a while before they go to sleep", not "until they go to sleep", or it becomes a contest where they stay awake as long as possible to keep you there.
- slothtrop 4y ago
  I agree with not holding the infant until they sleep, that probably makes the greatest difference. I don't understand the check-ins, because they fall asleep so quickly anyway and we don't want to disturb them.
  - seanc 4y ago
    Kids and families are different, but do keep in mind that there is a world of difference between an infant and a 1-year old like the grandparent (perhaps literally?) poster was talking about. There is nothing inconsistent about holding an infant and then sleep-training a 1 year old.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
isthisthingon99 4y ago
I have more than 4 kids Did you stop counting after 4?
- nvusuvu 4y ago
  Lots of things stop working after 4. (5 here)
  - taldo 4y ago
    One very important limitation: you run out of hands.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Let me present my 2-year-old's second favourite music, after Van Halen - Jump : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ccGjar4Es https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ccGjar4Es
  - isthisthingon99 4y ago
    This is amazing, I almost want to have more kids so I can have them love this song.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      I'm tempted to slip it in at a rock night.
- reitanqild 4y ago
  No, but if I say the exact number I'm even easier to pin down.
rr888 4y ago
> What I did was walking in at a fixed schedule, starting Wow I never heard this before, it sounds like a great idea. Did you learn from someone else or figured out yourself? I struggled with getting kids to sleep by themselves.
- reitanqild 4y ago
  Learned it from a book in Danish - God Nat Sov Godt, originally written by a Spanish physician/doctor so if you don't know Danish but can find the author I think there is a fair chance it might exist in more languages.
throwoutway 4y ago
What about under 1 year? Facing the same issue
- t0mas88 4y ago
  I think the consensus is that letting them cry is unhealthy when younger than 6 months. But when over 6 months: What we used to do is to have a simple fixed routine (e.g. drink milk, sing a short song, put them in bed) so she knows what's coming and put her in bed no matter what. Crying or not, just put her in bed softly, ignore the crying, say some nice things and walk out in a friendly way. Come back after 3 minutes of crying. Stroke/hold/sing until she stops crying (usually immediately when you come back). And then put her in bed again in the same way. Often there will be some crying in protest of being put back in bed, it's really hard, but you have to put them in bed then in the same friendly/soft way as the first time. Then keep doing this in increasing time intervals. We did 3 min, 5 min, 5 min, 10 min and then keep it at 10. But we rarely got to 10 after the initial week of doing this. I've heard several other parents that did the same thing, some after speaking to a sleep coach. It worked for many, but it takes consistency and a bit of time to start working.
Thlom 4y ago
We had minimal problems with the two oldest, but the youngest one is impossible. I think I’ve tried all the tricks in every book to make him sleep in his own bed the whole night. I think I can count on one hand the times that have actually happened. Hopefully we/he will figure it soon.
seanc 4y ago
I did much the same thing when the kids were about the same age. I would also put a kitchen timer _in the room_ set to 3:10. So at 3 minutes I got the reminder to stop what I'm doing and go to the room. Then at 3:10 their timer goes off and I came right in the door. The idea was to teach them that the timer brings the parent, not the crying.

bboygravity 4y ago

Is this Elon's secret account? :p

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
iamacyborg 4y ago
Na, he’s talking about parenting, not fathering

danw1979 4y ago

The visiting the room at regular intervals works great. I only have two, and left it late with both. 5yo just fell asleep on his own for the first time a few weeks ago, still hates the idea, but doesn’t scream at least, now he knows I’ve not abandoned him…

prox 4y ago
Why have kids (if I read these comments) have such an ingrained idea that you will abandoning them? Is that subconscious, and/or just an emotional response? As in, why would they not presume the inverse (that you will always be there)?
- burnished 4y ago
  I suspect that there were evolutionary pressures at play here.
- iib 4y ago
  I assume it is more of the "if the parent leaves me, I am going to die" reflex that is ingrained in babies, so the danger is great enough to warrant panic, even though it is improbable. Plus, very young kids don't have object permanence.
  - aitchnyu 4y ago
    I heard of a parent telling a young kid that beyond the turn on the road there is a Foobarator, and kid dutifully keeps within safe distance without knowing what's a Foobarator nor what threat it poses. I remember at age 7 being afraid of tigers and dinosaurs at night, sometimes I watched tall coconut trees. I also asked my mum if she will abandon me for a mistake.
- specialp 4y ago
  Infants especially sleep BETTER when there is noise and people around. For an adult noise means something is possibly coming to harm you and your family at night so it awakens you. For an infant, lack of noise means abandonment and the response is to cry as infants are helpless without their parents

markdown 4y ago

Putting an infant alone in a room of their own seems to be an exclusively western practice and is completely foreign to me. 3500 American babies due suddenly and unexpectedly from SIDS every year. I wonder if there is any research into where these babies were sleeping when they died. Am I an idiot for wondering if they died from the sheer terror of waking up alone in a dark room?

thargor90 4y ago
This is not how SIDS works. Children just stop breathing. Some newer research suggests this is a genetic issue. Of course there is misdiagnosis for children that suffocate because of toys/blankets.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  Everyone stops breathing sometimes, but SIDS babies lack certain hormone that causes reaction (start wiggling to remove pillow or start screaming). IIRC Australian scientists identified the marker recently.
  - d1sxeyes 4y ago
    Sort of. Australian scientists discovered there is a correlation between low levels of the enzyme BChE and increased SIDS risk. It's worth noting that there's a fair bit of evidence that actually points to AChE rather than BChE, but AChE is much more volatile and so harder to measure. It's a particularly interesting finding because we already know that low levels of BChE correspond to an additional challenges waking up from anaesthetic, and the working hypothesis is that this may be linked to the arousal system. One other potential link is to SUDEP (Sudden Unexpected Death in Epilepsy), which so far we also don't understand the cause of, but it may be similar to SIDS (or in fact, it may even be the exact same condition) - it often presents very similarly (face down in bed, no obvious signs of suffocation, etc.). In fact, in Australia and New Zealand, SIDS is being renamed to SUDI (Sudden Unexpected Death in Infancy), which sort of speaks for itself in terms of similarities.
cycomanic 4y ago

t0mas88 4y ago

We did the same and there is one big contradiction between this and the research linked: you're not holding them or walking until they sleep, you let the kids fall asleep on their own with the confidence that you'll be back. In my country you get a monthly check in with experts for the first 6 months and then less frequently. Mostly to weigh and check growth and arrange shots etc. But they also take some time to discuss how things are going and publish a booklet per age group with advice to parents. Their advice (based on other research) is to strongly avoid holding your child until she sleeps and instead recommend exactly what you did. The reason is that if you are holding the baby, they fall asleep and then wake a bit or switch to lighter sleep some time later (like every human does periodically every night) they will encounter a different environment and the holding prent is gone. That's going to wake them up fully and get confused. So now you have a crying baby in the middle of the night that you need to hold again to get back to sleep. While if they fall asleep in their bed, feeling safe that you'll be around, a few hours later if they wake up they'll determine that everything is still OK and as they expect it to be, and continue sleeping.

taneq 4y ago
On a related note, if you sit with them while they're going to sleep, make sure it's "for a while before they go to sleep", not "until they go to sleep", or it becomes a contest where they stay awake as long as possible to keep you there.
slothtrop 4y ago
I agree with not holding the infant until they sleep, that probably makes the greatest difference. I don't understand the check-ins, because they fall asleep so quickly anyway and we don't want to disturb them.
- seanc 4y ago
  Kids and families are different, but do keep in mind that there is a world of difference between an infant and a 1-year old like the grandparent (perhaps literally?) poster was talking about. There is nothing inconsistent about holding an infant and then sleep-training a 1 year old.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

isthisthingon99 4y ago

I have more than 4 kids Did you stop counting after 4?

nvusuvu 4y ago
Lots of things stop working after 4. (5 here)
- taldo 4y ago
  One very important limitation: you run out of hands.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
Let me present my 2-year-old's second favourite music, after Van Halen - Jump : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ccGjar4Es https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ccGjar4Es
- isthisthingon99 4y ago
  This is amazing, I almost want to have more kids so I can have them love this song.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    I'm tempted to slip it in at a rock night.
reitanqild 4y ago
No, but if I say the exact number I'm even easier to pin down.

rr888 4y ago

> What I did was walking in at a fixed schedule, starting Wow I never heard this before, it sounds like a great idea. Did you learn from someone else or figured out yourself? I struggled with getting kids to sleep by themselves.

reitanqild 4y ago
Learned it from a book in Danish - God Nat Sov Godt, originally written by a Spanish physician/doctor so if you don't know Danish but can find the author I think there is a fair chance it might exist in more languages.

throwoutway 4y ago

What about under 1 year? Facing the same issue

t0mas88 4y ago
I think the consensus is that letting them cry is unhealthy when younger than 6 months. But when over 6 months: What we used to do is to have a simple fixed routine (e.g. drink milk, sing a short song, put them in bed) so she knows what's coming and put her in bed no matter what. Crying or not, just put her in bed softly, ignore the crying, say some nice things and walk out in a friendly way. Come back after 3 minutes of crying. Stroke/hold/sing until she stops crying (usually immediately when you come back). And then put her in bed again in the same way. Often there will be some crying in protest of being put back in bed, it's really hard, but you have to put them in bed then in the same friendly/soft way as the first time. Then keep doing this in increasing time intervals. We did 3 min, 5 min, 5 min, 10 min and then keep it at 10. But we rarely got to 10 after the initial week of doing this. I've heard several other parents that did the same thing, some after speaking to a sleep coach. It worked for many, but it takes consistency and a bit of time to start working.

Thlom 4y ago

We had minimal problems with the two oldest, but the youngest one is impossible. I think I’ve tried all the tricks in every book to make him sleep in his own bed the whole night. I think I can count on one hand the times that have actually happened. Hopefully we/he will figure it soon.

seanc 4y ago

I did much the same thing when the kids were about the same age. I would also put a kitchen timer _in the room_ set to 3:10. So at 3 minutes I got the reminder to stop what I'm doing and go to the room. Then at 3:10 their timer goes off and I came right in the door. The idea was to teach them that the timer brings the parent, not the crying.