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In my experience, it’s usually not about finding out the actual facts / truth for these groups of people, but rather based mostly on emotion. I have an extremel

In my experience, it’s usually not about finding out the actual facts / truth for these groups of people, but rather based mostly on emotion. I have an extremely hard time believing that letting them listen to TWiV would have any meaningful impact.

cat_plus_plus 4y ago
Just curious - if you say so many other people are forming their opinion based on emotion rather than facts / truth and don't realize that - why do you think you are immune to the same phenomena? I don't mean it as an insult, I probably also have a few beliefs like that, with no way to realize which ones. Certainly feels good to believe I am protected from a deadly disease and feels bad to wonder about side effects. So why listen to any critique of COVID-19 vaccines after I already got my shots?
- hamandcheese 4y ago
  Parent did not say they believe they are immune.
  - blueblueue 4y ago
    But strongly implied it.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    'these groups of people' does imply there are (other groups of) people immune to it, whichever group they believe themselves to be in. (That's an everyday speech 'imply', not a mathematical 'imply'; where of course the existence of sets containing x says nothing about the existence of sets not containing x.)
uwagar 4y ago
- space_fountain 4y ago
  Hey, that’s not how vaccines actually work. I think you’ve had fragments of the truth presented in a way to try to make you believe things that aren’t true. Vaccines aren’t a platform that can be triggered to do different things. It does use RNA which is cool because it allows for more rapid changes. The vaccine will mostly work with a wide variety of RNA payloads with the only difference being the exact antibodies it encourages. In a few decades that might mean we could start developing and deploying vaccines in weeks. But rna doesn’t last long. It’s pretty unstable so the only thing getting updated is your bodies natural immune response
  - uwagar 4y ago
    u are just reinforcing my understanding. so payloads, triggering and 'specific' products are all real. surely 'bugs' in this sequence are inevitable too with maybe devastating consequences for which no one is liable. who is to say the boosters are not updates that sneak in backdoors with additional 'features'? + these vaccines are peddled by for profit companies that refuse to share IP and emergency approved by govt agencies that have these company officers on their boards.... sorry, i refuse this workflow that treats my body like a phone that needs constant 'security' updates.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      > companies that refuse to share IP That only means they have an exclusive right to manufacture the vaccine. It doesn’t mean that the details are secret. For example: https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding-mRNA-sequences-for-vaccines-BNT-162b2-and-mRNA-1273/blob/main/Figure1Figure2_032321.fasta https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV...
    - space_fountain 4y ago
      Did you get flu updates in the past? What about yearly physicals? Obviously I’m not going to convince you, but I would like to invite you to wonder what the difference is. RNA tech is potentially scary, but the idea that vaccines are secretly doing something else is a bit silly. For one thing the number of people who can “decompile” the vaccine is pretty large. I believe there have been some research papers on it even and beyond that biology is pretty limited. You’d need a lot more than is in the vaccine to do anything more than your run of the mill virus does to you dozens of times a year and honestly a lot less than some because it can’t modify your dna, it can’t save itself anywhere.
canoebuilder 4y ago
In my experience, it’s usually not about finding out the actual facts / truth for these groups of people actual facts https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/covid-deaths-in-israel-have-hit-an https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/covid-deaths-in-israel-h... look at that chart and then recall the absolutely mad state so many people went into Summer 2021 "time to blame the 'unvaccinated'" "time to inject them against their will" "time to violate their basic human rights" https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/i-know-what-you-did-last-summer-and https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/i-know-what-you-did-last... maybe, just maybe, the "unvaccinated" were able to see something you weren't and chose the better path
- LadyCailin 4y ago
  Public health rights and not clogging up hospitals with easily preventable diseases readily outweigh your individual right to not get vaccinated, in general. Had the discussions around the specific Covid vaccines been argued with this in mind, a more productive conversation could be had, but instead it jumps immediately to a conversation about “muh rights” which is wholeheartedly disingenuous and/or selfish.
  - canoebuilder 4y ago
    The shots don’t work. Even if they did, people’s choice over what is injected into their bodies comes first. Even if they did work, the profile of who was at risk was clear, it wasn’t healthy young people. So why was it pushed on healthy young people? From the outset the risk reward ratio was not clear for those without high comorbidites, the minute the myocarditis signal showed up it should have been pulled for most people. Bearing in mind we now know myocarditis is just one of a multitude of negative side effects. So why did it go on being pushed and coerced to healthy people, actively harming them?
  - brigandish 4y ago
    To protect or support one individual's rights is to protect or support everyone's individual rights. That is why, for example, prominent free speech activists will support the right of people they vehemently disagree with to voice their opinions, as it protects one's own right to voice opinions. How is that selfish? > If you would like to be selfish, you should do it in a very intelligent way. The stupid way to be selfish is … seeking happiness for ourselves alone. … the intelligent way to be selfish is to work for the welfare of others.” - Dalai Lama

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

Just curious - if you say so many other people are forming their opinion based on emotion rather than facts / truth and don't realize that - why do you think you are immune to the same phenomena? I don't mean it as an insult, I probably also have a few beliefs like that, with no way to realize which ones. Certainly feels good to believe I am protected from a deadly disease and feels bad to wonder about side effects. So why listen to any critique of COVID-19 vaccines after I already got my shots?

hamandcheese 4y ago
Parent did not say they believe they are immune.
- blueblueue 4y ago
  But strongly implied it.
- OJFord 4y ago
  'these groups of people' does imply there are (other groups of) people immune to it, whichever group they believe themselves to be in. (That's an everyday speech 'imply', not a mathematical 'imply'; where of course the existence of sets containing x says nothing about the existence of sets not containing x.)

uwagar 4y ago

space_fountain 4y ago
Hey, that’s not how vaccines actually work. I think you’ve had fragments of the truth presented in a way to try to make you believe things that aren’t true. Vaccines aren’t a platform that can be triggered to do different things. It does use RNA which is cool because it allows for more rapid changes. The vaccine will mostly work with a wide variety of RNA payloads with the only difference being the exact antibodies it encourages. In a few decades that might mean we could start developing and deploying vaccines in weeks. But rna doesn’t last long. It’s pretty unstable so the only thing getting updated is your bodies natural immune response
- uwagar 4y ago
  u are just reinforcing my understanding. so payloads, triggering and 'specific' products are all real. surely 'bugs' in this sequence are inevitable too with maybe devastating consequences for which no one is liable. who is to say the boosters are not updates that sneak in backdoors with additional 'features'? + these vaccines are peddled by for profit companies that refuse to share IP and emergency approved by govt agencies that have these company officers on their boards.... sorry, i refuse this workflow that treats my body like a phone that needs constant 'security' updates.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    > companies that refuse to share IP That only means they have an exclusive right to manufacture the vaccine. It doesn’t mean that the details are secret. For example: https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding-mRNA-sequences-for-vaccines-BNT-162b2-and-mRNA-1273/blob/main/Figure1Figure2_032321.fasta https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV...
  - space_fountain 4y ago
    Did you get flu updates in the past? What about yearly physicals? Obviously I’m not going to convince you, but I would like to invite you to wonder what the difference is. RNA tech is potentially scary, but the idea that vaccines are secretly doing something else is a bit silly. For one thing the number of people who can “decompile” the vaccine is pretty large. I believe there have been some research papers on it even and beyond that biology is pretty limited. You’d need a lot more than is in the vaccine to do anything more than your run of the mill virus does to you dozens of times a year and honestly a lot less than some because it can’t modify your dna, it can’t save itself anywhere.

canoebuilder 4y ago

In my experience, it’s usually not about finding out the actual facts / truth for these groups of people actual facts https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/covid-deaths-in-israel-have-hit-an https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/covid-deaths-in-israel-h... look at that chart and then recall the absolutely mad state so many people went into Summer 2021 "time to blame the 'unvaccinated'" "time to inject them against their will" "time to violate their basic human rights" https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/i-know-what-you-did-last-summer-and https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/i-know-what-you-did-last... maybe, just maybe, the "unvaccinated" were able to see something you weren't and chose the better path

LadyCailin 4y ago
Public health rights and not clogging up hospitals with easily preventable diseases readily outweigh your individual right to not get vaccinated, in general. Had the discussions around the specific Covid vaccines been argued with this in mind, a more productive conversation could be had, but instead it jumps immediately to a conversation about “muh rights” which is wholeheartedly disingenuous and/or selfish.
- canoebuilder 4y ago
  The shots don’t work. Even if they did, people’s choice over what is injected into their bodies comes first. Even if they did work, the profile of who was at risk was clear, it wasn’t healthy young people. So why was it pushed on healthy young people? From the outset the risk reward ratio was not clear for those without high comorbidites, the minute the myocarditis signal showed up it should have been pulled for most people. Bearing in mind we now know myocarditis is just one of a multitude of negative side effects. So why did it go on being pushed and coerced to healthy people, actively harming them?
- brigandish 4y ago
  To protect or support one individual's rights is to protect or support everyone's individual rights. That is why, for example, prominent free speech activists will support the right of people they vehemently disagree with to voice their opinions, as it protects one's own right to voice opinions. How is that selfish? > If you would like to be selfish, you should do it in a very intelligent way. The stupid way to be selfish is … seeking happiness for ourselves alone. … the intelligent way to be selfish is to work for the welfare of others.” - Dalai Lama