5 ms·

"When Canada" I want to call out this country wide edict. I've seen this done in both the United States and Canada. I do not know your personal situation, but

"When Canada" I want to call out this country wide edict. I've seen this done in both the United States and Canada. I do not know your personal situation, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't across the entire country of Canada.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
It sure was.
- canadianwatcher 4y ago
  Except not everyone in Canada requires chip and pin, and the parent comment made it sound like there are no other options with credit cards across the entire country. Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces. I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card technology just doesn't register. Maybe the removal of the Canadian penny, or paper dollar?
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    The paper dollar was converted to a coin in the '90s and the two-dollar bill followed suit. Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now. Speak not from whence you know not.
    - canadianwatcher 4y ago
      Exactly. Removal of some of the coinage and paper was nationwide. They are no longer legal tender. While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did). The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
      - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
        >They are no longer legal tender. The $1 and the $2 notes stopped being issued in 1989 and 1996 respectively. They are not demonetized and you can still exchange such money at any bank in Canada, or the Bank of Canada, for its face value. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/ https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/ >While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition What the hell is this supposed to mean? EMV-enabled cards were rolled out as each bank got onboard, replacing cards at expiry with EMV-enabled ones. Eventually no further non-chip cards were issued. After a while, the same thing happened for contactless as well. >nor different options to use with the same card. EMV supports multiple applets per card, so you can absolutely have a debit and a credit card in the same physical card, choosing which you want to use after you insert it into the reader. These are unusual, perhaps because most people seem to prefer separate cards. >The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. The United States isn't just behind Canada, it's behind Europe, Australia, and most of Asia, as well. I can send money from one European country to another in a regulated maximum of 15 seconds 24/7/365 (look up "SCT INST"), but the Americans can't get it from one bank to another in the same country quicker than a day or two (or sometimes three, apparently). Never mind consumers trying to punch in someone's ABA routing and account numbers to pay them... lol nope, hence the mess of insecure third-party services like Zelle, CashApp, etc. Skimmers aren't really a thing in Europe because everything is EMV, and I don't mean the abortion which is chip-and-signature (although that still proves possession of the original card). >Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile. Again you speak from whence you know not. Google Pay and Apple Pay use a different CVM, referred to as CDCVM, for which there is no PIN as user authentication is handled by the device (hence the need for a fingerprint or face scan before they can be used). For small transactions plastic cards are permitted to perform contactless transactions without a PIN in most countries for convenience as the risk of fraud is low given the maximum cumulative cap of perhaps €50/$50, configurable by the issuer, before a PIN becomes required, which caps the bank's liability in case of theft (since the cardholder is not on the hook for it).

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago

It sure was.

canadianwatcher 4y ago
Except not everyone in Canada requires chip and pin, and the parent comment made it sound like there are no other options with credit cards across the entire country. Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces. I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card technology just doesn't register. Maybe the removal of the Canadian penny, or paper dollar?
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  The paper dollar was converted to a coin in the '90s and the two-dollar bill followed suit. Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now. Speak not from whence you know not.
  - canadianwatcher 4y ago
    Exactly. Removal of some of the coinage and paper was nationwide. They are no longer legal tender. While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did). The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      >They are no longer legal tender. The $1 and the $2 notes stopped being issued in 1989 and 1996 respectively. They are not demonetized and you can still exchange such money at any bank in Canada, or the Bank of Canada, for its face value. https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/ https://www.bankofcanada.ca/banknotes/about-legal-tender/ >While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition What the hell is this supposed to mean? EMV-enabled cards were rolled out as each bank got onboard, replacing cards at expiry with EMV-enabled ones. Eventually no further non-chip cards were issued. After a while, the same thing happened for contactless as well. >nor different options to use with the same card. EMV supports multiple applets per card, so you can absolutely have a debit and a credit card in the same physical card, choosing which you want to use after you insert it into the reader. These are unusual, perhaps because most people seem to prefer separate cards. >The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. The United States isn't just behind Canada, it's behind Europe, Australia, and most of Asia, as well. I can send money from one European country to another in a regulated maximum of 15 seconds 24/7/365 (look up "SCT INST"), but the Americans can't get it from one bank to another in the same country quicker than a day or two (or sometimes three, apparently). Never mind consumers trying to punch in someone's ABA routing and account numbers to pay them... lol nope, hence the mess of insecure third-party services like Zelle, CashApp, etc. Skimmers aren't really a thing in Europe because everything is EMV, and I don't mean the abortion which is chip-and-signature (although that still proves possession of the original card). >Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile. Again you speak from whence you know not. Google Pay and Apple Pay use a different CVM, referred to as CDCVM, for which there is no PIN as user authentication is handled by the device (hence the need for a fingerprint or face scan before they can be used). For small transactions plastic cards are permitted to perform contactless transactions without a PIN in most countries for convenience as the risk of fraud is low given the maximum cumulative cap of perhaps €50/$50, configurable by the issuer, before a PIN becomes required, which caps the bank's liability in case of theft (since the cardholder is not on the hook for it).