7 ms·

Do you have more specifics in what you are referring to?

by dmak 4y ago

moralestapia 4y ago
Ethereum PoW could be seen (if you squint hard enough) as some sort of activity that produces a good (through mining) and its respective marketplace. Ehereum PoS is just a financial asset with a weird governing structure (like a currency future? idk). It's basically standard stock.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- vanviegen 4y ago
  Something is called a 'good' if it has some inherent with to some people. PoW does not. Exhaust gas isn't a good either. PoW and PoS are both financially assets with a weird governing structure, I'd say.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jhugo 4y ago
Staking ETH pays interest, so buying ETH is buying an interest-bearing asset (i.e. a security). Some of the biggest players in staking will be exchanges who will likely give some (most) of the interest they earn to their depositors. Those exchanges are then a ripe target for existing securities regulation, and they'll also be the biggest validators on the network, so risk for them is risk for the whole network.
- rvz 4y ago
  > Those exchanges are then a ripe target for existing securities regulation, and they'll also be the biggest validators on the network, so risk for them is risk for the whole network. This. Of all comments this is the centralization risk on top of proof-of-stake which will have a more involved focus on staking with it being highly likely that it now passes the Howey test that ETH looking more like a security, with the Ethereum Foundation at the center of all of this.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > Staking ETH pays interest, so buying ETH is buying an interest-bearing asset Buying Eth will be the same as before. What you could say, is staking Eth is what makes it an interest-bearing asset, not just buying Eth.
  - tzekid 4y ago
    As far as I understand, without any work (energy consumption) that is directly tied to the value of the asset, there's no argument left for it to be a currency, i.e. it can only be categorised as a security asset.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Buying Eth: No investment in a common enterprise, no expectation of profit nor is that non-profit derived from others. Not a security. Staking Eth: Investment in common enterprise, expectation of profit and profit derived from others. Looks and quacks like a security. Buying and holding Eth without staking it shouldn't be considered a security, while staking said Eth should be considered a security. At least if we're still following the "Howey Test".
      - jhugo 4y ago
        If there were two tokens, one of which was stakeable and the other not, traded separately but convertible, then sure. But that's not reality. ETH's value is in part defined by its ability to bear interest. Whether you personally stake or not has no bearing on whether your ETH is a security.
      - pa7x1 4y ago
        Staked ETH derives profit from your own effort. You have to buy equipment (consumer-grade computer), pay for internet and energy costs to have it plugged and put your own effort in maintaining it online, operational and secure. This is basically a side-job for techies but a side-job in the end. Staked ETH rewards are thus not passive income and staked ETH is not a security. In a similar manner that rental income is taxed as income and a landowner that rents an appartment is not issuing an illegal security. A different thing is what happens with a liquid staking token like stETH, a much better argument can be made that it quacks and walks like a security.
- DennisP 4y ago
  It's not passive though. You get paid for running a node and validating transactions. You stake ETH as a surety bond that you'll do it correctly.
  - jhugo 4y ago
    Those things are not as coupled as you make them sound: the vast majority of people getting paid interest on their ETH won't be running a node. They'll be receiving interest passed on by exchanges or other centralised entities that are staking their ETH.
    - DennisP 4y ago
      And if those entities give them some kind of token they can trade around, giving them rights to their deposit plus some profits, that token might well be a security. But if I loan you dollars and you promise to do something profitable and give me more dollars back, that doesn't make the dollar a security.

Do you have more specifics in what you are referring to?

by dmak 4y ago

Do you have more specifics in what you are referring to?

Ethereum PoW could be seen (if you squint hard enough) as some sort of activity that produces a good (through mining) and its respective marketplace. Ehereum PoS is just a financial asset with a weird governing structure (like a currency future? idk). It's basically standard stock.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vanviegen 4y ago
Something is called a 'good' if it has some inherent with to some people. PoW does not. Exhaust gas isn't a good either. PoW and PoS are both financially assets with a weird governing structure, I'd say.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jhugo 4y ago

Staking ETH pays interest, so buying ETH is buying an interest-bearing asset (i.e. a security). Some of the biggest players in staking will be exchanges who will likely give some (most) of the interest they earn to their depositors. Those exchanges are then a ripe target for existing securities regulation, and they'll also be the biggest validators on the network, so risk for them is risk for the whole network.

rvz 4y ago
> Those exchanges are then a ripe target for existing securities regulation, and they'll also be the biggest validators on the network, so risk for them is risk for the whole network. This. Of all comments this is the centralization risk on top of proof-of-stake which will have a more involved focus on staking with it being highly likely that it now passes the Howey test that ETH looking more like a security, with the Ethereum Foundation at the center of all of this.
capableweb 4y ago
> Staking ETH pays interest, so buying ETH is buying an interest-bearing asset Buying Eth will be the same as before. What you could say, is staking Eth is what makes it an interest-bearing asset, not just buying Eth.
- tzekid 4y ago
  As far as I understand, without any work (energy consumption) that is directly tied to the value of the asset, there's no argument left for it to be a currency, i.e. it can only be categorised as a security asset.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Buying Eth: No investment in a common enterprise, no expectation of profit nor is that non-profit derived from others. Not a security. Staking Eth: Investment in common enterprise, expectation of profit and profit derived from others. Looks and quacks like a security. Buying and holding Eth without staking it shouldn't be considered a security, while staking said Eth should be considered a security. At least if we're still following the "Howey Test".
    - jhugo 4y ago
      If there were two tokens, one of which was stakeable and the other not, traded separately but convertible, then sure. But that's not reality. ETH's value is in part defined by its ability to bear interest. Whether you personally stake or not has no bearing on whether your ETH is a security.
    - pa7x1 4y ago
      Staked ETH derives profit from your own effort. You have to buy equipment (consumer-grade computer), pay for internet and energy costs to have it plugged and put your own effort in maintaining it online, operational and secure. This is basically a side-job for techies but a side-job in the end. Staked ETH rewards are thus not passive income and staked ETH is not a security. In a similar manner that rental income is taxed as income and a landowner that rents an appartment is not issuing an illegal security. A different thing is what happens with a liquid staking token like stETH, a much better argument can be made that it quacks and walks like a security.
DennisP 4y ago
It's not passive though. You get paid for running a node and validating transactions. You stake ETH as a surety bond that you'll do it correctly.
- jhugo 4y ago
  Those things are not as coupled as you make them sound: the vast majority of people getting paid interest on their ETH won't be running a node. They'll be receiving interest passed on by exchanges or other centralised entities that are staking their ETH.
  - DennisP 4y ago
    And if those entities give them some kind of token they can trade around, giving them rights to their deposit plus some profits, that token might well be a security. But if I loan you dollars and you promise to do something profitable and give me more dollars back, that doesn't make the dollar a security.