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When Canada moved to Chip and Pin there was no fanfare. Merchants started getting chip terminals as part of the regular replacement cycle, consumers started ge

When Canada moved to Chip and Pin there was no fanfare. Merchants started getting chip terminals as part of the regular replacement cycle, consumers started getting chip cards as part of that regular replacement cycle, and eventually the terminals started telling users to insert their card. Interac was the first mover because most people were already familiar with swipe and pin, so the move to chip and pin was a virtual non-event. When the credit card companies moved the issuing banks had to issue PINs, but everyone already knew the mechanics of using it. The most interesting part is that the US already has the infrastructure to support this. I went to a Walmart in the US and paying with my Canadian credit card worked EXACTLY like it does in Canada - insert card, confirm amount, enter PIN, done. The cashier was a little confused that I didn't need to sign for it, but ultimately they just went with it. The introduction of NFC was a similar non-event.

derefr 4y ago
The problem is that there's no equivalent party in the "infrastructure" position in the US that Interac occupies in Canada. There's just 500 different state-level banks, who all license different companies to make their ATM cards. (This is the same reason it took so long for the US to get past two-day ACH settlement.)
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  For the purposes of accepting these cards as payment (which seems to be a much more common skimmer threat, for example at gas pumps) don't MasterCard and Visa fill this role?
canadianwatcher 4y ago
"When Canada" I want to call out this country wide edict. I've seen this done in both the United States and Canada. I do not know your personal situation, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't across the entire country of Canada.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  It sure was.
  - canadianwatcher 4y ago
    Except not everyone in Canada requires chip and pin, and the parent comment made it sound like there are no other options with credit cards across the entire country. Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces. I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card technology just doesn't register. Maybe the removal of the Canadian penny, or paper dollar?
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      The paper dollar was converted to a coin in the '90s and the two-dollar bill followed suit. Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now. Speak not from whence you know not.
      - canadianwatcher 4y ago
        Exactly. Removal of some of the coinage and paper was nationwide. They are no longer legal tender. While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did). The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
        4y ago
NavinF 4y ago
The vast majority of terminals in the US use chip, but I doubt the US will ever require pin numbers for credit card purchases. It's just too inconvenient. Banks are willing to eat the tiny reversed transactions in exchange for making the payment flow more efficient.
- DanAtC 4y ago
  Banks don't eat reversed charges, the retailer does.
- neilalexander 4y ago
  What about it is inconvenient? We've had Chip+PIN in the UK since 2006 and contactless payments since 2007 and it isn't inconvenient at all. Supporting card machines are everywhere and in addition portable card machines are extremely commonplace. Even in restaurants they just bring the card reader to the table and you either tap-to-pay or you put your card in and enter your PIN.
  - NavinF 4y ago
    It takes a few more seconds. Never gonna happen.
    - omnimus 4y ago
      I am nit sure how it works elsewhere but with NFC i can set limit when PIN is required . And with NFC on phone this gets preapproved by using biometrics. So most people dont write PIN.
    - acdha 4y ago
      The time is moot in almost all situations as long as it doesn’t take you longer to enter the PIN than it does for a cashier to finish tallying items. The concern I’ve heard businesses raise is that people won’t remember it but that’s also a chicken and egg problem since people will remember what they use regularly. Of course, since it’s the 2020s and not the 1990s we don’t need either since NFC is widely supported and an Apple/Google device transaction secured by biometrics on the client is far better and already widely supported.
michaelmior 4y ago
When I first moved from Canada to the US, before I got an American credit card, I used my Canadian card to tap as I was so used to doing. More than once, the clerk looked at me as though I were a wizard.
- canadianwatcher 4y ago
  That's funny, I had similar experiences moving from the United States to Canada. When most people were paying with their debit cards at the terminal, I would tap my credit card (at the time issued from the United States) and have no signature. Like in your case, some clerks seemed surprised.
  - michaelmior 4y ago
    That's surprising since cards with tap became common in Canada much earlier than the US. Although mobile payments took longer to catch on.
    - canadianwatcher 4y ago
      I'm not sure that's fair, given the technology was first used as early as 2004 in the United States. https://www.globalpaymentsintegrated.com/en-us/blog/2020/09/15/the-history-of-contactless-payments https://www.globalpaymentsintegrated.com/en-us/blog/2020/09/... I'm unable to measure how "common" it was across two giant land masses with very different populations sizes. My personal story was paying by credit card via tap and requiring no signature, with a card issued in the United States while in Canada, and having people be very surprised at its use.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
garfieldnate 4y ago
I'm curious what actually determines when a pin number or signature is required. I seem to get asked for them pretty randomly, sometimes not at all. It's been this way everywhere I go (currently living in Germany). What does the store actually do with all the signed receipts at the end of the day, anyway?

derefr 4y ago

The problem is that there's no equivalent party in the "infrastructure" position in the US that Interac occupies in Canada. There's just 500 different state-level banks, who all license different companies to make their ATM cards. (This is the same reason it took so long for the US to get past two-day ACH settlement.)

cmeacham98 4y ago
For the purposes of accepting these cards as payment (which seems to be a much more common skimmer threat, for example at gas pumps) don't MasterCard and Visa fill this role?

canadianwatcher 4y ago

"When Canada" I want to call out this country wide edict. I've seen this done in both the United States and Canada. I do not know your personal situation, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't across the entire country of Canada.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
It sure was.
- canadianwatcher 4y ago
  Except not everyone in Canada requires chip and pin, and the parent comment made it sound like there are no other options with credit cards across the entire country. Based on my experience both the United States and Canada are usually moving financial tech through different regions and social groups in phases and at different paces. I'm trying to think of specific examples occurring nation wide and credit card technology just doesn't register. Maybe the removal of the Canadian penny, or paper dollar?
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    The paper dollar was converted to a coin in the '90s and the two-dollar bill followed suit. Yes, every card in Canada is chip and PIN except possibly some prepaid gift cards. The same is the case across Europe and Australia and has been for the better part of two decades now. Speak not from whence you know not.
    - canadianwatcher 4y ago
      Exactly. Removal of some of the coinage and paper was nationwide. They are no longer legal tender. While all cards in Canada may have chip and PIN, no such event occurred where across the nation everyone started using it for every purchase, like there was no transition, nor different options to use with the same card. Consider contactless-enabled card payments as an example (like the original post did). The assertion that the United States is somehow behind Canada in payment technology because all credit card issuers do not issue cards with chip and PIN seems invalid to me. Additionally the surprise at not requiring signatures. Merchants have been accepting contact-less enabled card payments in the United States, requiring no signature, for quite awhile.
      - 4y ago

NavinF 4y ago

The vast majority of terminals in the US use chip, but I doubt the US will ever require pin numbers for credit card purchases. It's just too inconvenient. Banks are willing to eat the tiny reversed transactions in exchange for making the payment flow more efficient.

DanAtC 4y ago
Banks don't eat reversed charges, the retailer does.
neilalexander 4y ago
What about it is inconvenient? We've had Chip+PIN in the UK since 2006 and contactless payments since 2007 and it isn't inconvenient at all. Supporting card machines are everywhere and in addition portable card machines are extremely commonplace. Even in restaurants they just bring the card reader to the table and you either tap-to-pay or you put your card in and enter your PIN.
- NavinF 4y ago
  It takes a few more seconds. Never gonna happen.
  - omnimus 4y ago
    I am nit sure how it works elsewhere but with NFC i can set limit when PIN is required . And with NFC on phone this gets preapproved by using biometrics. So most people dont write PIN.
  - acdha 4y ago
    The time is moot in almost all situations as long as it doesn’t take you longer to enter the PIN than it does for a cashier to finish tallying items. The concern I’ve heard businesses raise is that people won’t remember it but that’s also a chicken and egg problem since people will remember what they use regularly. Of course, since it’s the 2020s and not the 1990s we don’t need either since NFC is widely supported and an Apple/Google device transaction secured by biometrics on the client is far better and already widely supported.

michaelmior 4y ago

When I first moved from Canada to the US, before I got an American credit card, I used my Canadian card to tap as I was so used to doing. More than once, the clerk looked at me as though I were a wizard.

canadianwatcher 4y ago
That's funny, I had similar experiences moving from the United States to Canada. When most people were paying with their debit cards at the terminal, I would tap my credit card (at the time issued from the United States) and have no signature. Like in your case, some clerks seemed surprised.
- michaelmior 4y ago
  That's surprising since cards with tap became common in Canada much earlier than the US. Although mobile payments took longer to catch on.
  - canadianwatcher 4y ago
    I'm not sure that's fair, given the technology was first used as early as 2004 in the United States. https://www.globalpaymentsintegrated.com/en-us/blog/2020/09/15/the-history-of-contactless-payments https://www.globalpaymentsintegrated.com/en-us/blog/2020/09/... I'm unable to measure how "common" it was across two giant land masses with very different populations sizes. My personal story was paying by credit card via tap and requiring no signature, with a card issued in the United States while in Canada, and having people be very surprised at its use.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

garfieldnate 4y ago

I'm curious what actually determines when a pin number or signature is required. I seem to get asked for them pretty randomly, sometimes not at all. It's been this way everywhere I go (currently living in Germany). What does the store actually do with all the signed receipts at the end of the day, anyway?