5 ms·

I love using cash. Sometimes I don't when my local ATM is down (which seems to happen so often...), but when I can it feels much better to me. No digital reco

by naet 4y ago

I love using cash. Sometimes I don't when my local ATM is down (which seems to happen so often...), but when I can it feels much better to me. No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam, don't have to give up my ATM pin, no worrying about my phone running out of charge, able to give it away freely to anyone in need without setting up a digital transfer, the old taco truck still only takes cash, etc. I will be sad when cash starts to be less accepted. Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area. Is that even legal?
- vkou 4y ago
  Yes, if they are pay up front establishments.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  It isn't in NYC[1]. We have some local businesses that ignore the law, and are (supposedly) being fined daily for continuing to violate it[2]. I'm not sure if the city has managed to collect yet. [1]: https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3763665&GUID=7800AFC9-D8B1-41FD-9C31-172565712686 https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3... [2]: https://nypost.com/2021/12/04/nyc-businesses-told-to-pay-up-after-not-accepting-cash/ https://nypost.com/2021/12/04/nyc-businesses-told-to-pay-up-...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- naet 4y ago
  It must be in my area, and it seems to be legal at the federal level in the USA. "There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise." https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm It may be illegal to refuse cash as payment for an existing debt but businesses are free to choose how (and with whom) they conduct business, including which forms of payment they accept.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    Interesting, thank you
  - daniel-cussen 4y ago
    Well a restaurant bill is in some sense a debt for the food that was already provided.
    - hunter2_ 4y ago
      For sure, and I think even a cashless restaurant would take cash rather than let you leave for free. Presumably the ones truly refusing cash are the type that take payment before you incur any food debt.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Probably. Although they may not really be setup to handle it and presumably can’t make change.
    - function_seven 4y ago
      I'd love to see what happens if I eat a meal, then say, "Sorry, I only have cash." They can be mad about it, but I don't think I'm breaking any laws by not having their preferred payment method to pay that debt, right? They can even ban me from the restaurant but—for that meal—I can't get charged with theft of services (or whatever the innkeeper laws are that relate to this situation)
      - showerst 4y ago
        The ones I’ve seen that don’t take cash are fast food where you don’t get your meal until after paying. Sweetgreen, for example.
      - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
        Might depend on if there was clear notification before ordering your meal that they don't accept cash. In that case, you've incurred a debt that you knew you would be unable to pay. That might be some sort of fraud but it probably varies by jurisdiction.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Broadly speaking, doing business on the internet doesn’t have a separate set of laws. Many online retailers don’t accept cash.
  - daniel-cussen 4y ago
    Some do. Some you can go in person to pay for the good to be delivered online. Then, some (mullvad) you can mail cash. Don't, in America, they steal it. But you can.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Its illegal in Massachusetts
  - ghaff 4y ago
    And yet there are restaurants that do it anyway.
leephillips 4y ago
I don’t eat at those restaurants. I like cash, too.
bmitc 4y ago
> No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam I don't understand. How are you not exposed to this type of skimmer when it only attacks those who use cash ATMs, like what you do?
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  In Australia, day to day you can get up to $100 cash out at the grocery store. I think this is safer than the ATM since the readers are generally in use all the time so there is less chance that they have been tampered with. At least, I've never heard of someone getting their card details stolen at the supermarket. And I have heard plenty of ATMs around me being compromised.
  - mattkrause 4y ago
    Target? Not exactly a grocery story, but it wasn't a single skimmer either.
- cezart 4y ago
  In my country (Eastern Europe), you can get a code from the bank's smartphone app, to get cash from the ATM, without using a card or pin. Helps with potential skimmer attacks.
OneLeggedCat 4y ago
> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area. Wow. This year in my area, a lot of the restaurants started charging 3% extra if you DON'T use cash. And generally, in my state of Montana, there are still restaurants that won't accept credit cards at all.
inquirerGeneral 4y ago
there is no digital record on my Google Pay, because it is a tokenized system on top of a tokenized system
linkdink 4y ago
> No digital records Is it really no digital records, or just fewer/obfuscated digital records? I would think that the ATM keeps tracks of the serial numbers of the notes it gave you?

by naet 4y ago

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago

> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area. Is that even legal?

vkou 4y ago
Yes, if they are pay up front establishments.
woodruffw 4y ago
It isn't in NYC[1]. We have some local businesses that ignore the law, and are (supposedly) being fined daily for continuing to violate it[2]. I'm not sure if the city has managed to collect yet. [1]: https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3763665&GUID=7800AFC9-D8B1-41FD-9C31-172565712686 https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3... [2]: https://nypost.com/2021/12/04/nyc-businesses-told-to-pay-up-after-not-accepting-cash/ https://nypost.com/2021/12/04/nyc-businesses-told-to-pay-up-...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
naet 4y ago
It must be in my area, and it seems to be legal at the federal level in the USA. "There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise." https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm It may be illegal to refuse cash as payment for an existing debt but businesses are free to choose how (and with whom) they conduct business, including which forms of payment they accept.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  Interesting, thank you
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Well a restaurant bill is in some sense a debt for the food that was already provided.
  - hunter2_ 4y ago
    For sure, and I think even a cashless restaurant would take cash rather than let you leave for free. Presumably the ones truly refusing cash are the type that take payment before you incur any food debt.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Probably. Although they may not really be setup to handle it and presumably can’t make change.
  - function_seven 4y ago
    I'd love to see what happens if I eat a meal, then say, "Sorry, I only have cash." They can be mad about it, but I don't think I'm breaking any laws by not having their preferred payment method to pay that debt, right? They can even ban me from the restaurant but—for that meal—I can't get charged with theft of services (or whatever the innkeeper laws are that relate to this situation)
    - showerst 4y ago
      The ones I’ve seen that don’t take cash are fast food where you don’t get your meal until after paying. Sweetgreen, for example.
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      Might depend on if there was clear notification before ordering your meal that they don't accept cash. In that case, you've incurred a debt that you knew you would be unable to pay. That might be some sort of fraud but it probably varies by jurisdiction.
kube-system 4y ago
Broadly speaking, doing business on the internet doesn’t have a separate set of laws. Many online retailers don’t accept cash.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Some do. Some you can go in person to pay for the good to be delivered online. Then, some (mullvad) you can mail cash. Don't, in America, they steal it. But you can.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
thehappypm 4y ago
Its illegal in Massachusetts
- ghaff 4y ago
  And yet there are restaurants that do it anyway.

leephillips 4y ago

I don’t eat at those restaurants. I like cash, too.

bmitc 4y ago

> No digital records, no potential for this type of skimmer or other scam I don't understand. How are you not exposed to this type of skimmer when it only attacks those who use cash ATMs, like what you do?

2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
In Australia, day to day you can get up to $100 cash out at the grocery store. I think this is safer than the ATM since the readers are generally in use all the time so there is less chance that they have been tampered with. At least, I've never heard of someone getting their card details stolen at the supermarket. And I have heard plenty of ATMs around me being compromised.
- mattkrause 4y ago
  Target? Not exactly a grocery story, but it wasn't a single skimmer either.
cezart 4y ago
In my country (Eastern Europe), you can get a code from the bank's smartphone app, to get cash from the ATM, without using a card or pin. Helps with potential skimmer attacks.

OneLeggedCat 4y ago

> Already there are a (small) number of modern restaurants that don't accept cash in my area. Wow. This year in my area, a lot of the restaurants started charging 3% extra if you DON'T use cash. And generally, in my state of Montana, there are still restaurants that won't accept credit cards at all.

inquirerGeneral 4y ago

there is no digital record on my Google Pay, because it is a tokenized system on top of a tokenized system

linkdink 4y ago

> No digital records Is it really no digital records, or just fewer/obfuscated digital records? I would think that the ATM keeps tracks of the serial numbers of the notes it gave you?