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Adversaries of the west want us to be unvaccinated and sick. Knowing what we know about "troll farms", I would not be surprised if there is an effort by some st

by nope96 4y ago

Adversaries of the west want us to be unvaccinated and sick. Knowing what we know about "troll farms", I would not be surprised if there is an effort by some states to discredit the vaccine on English speaking forums.

version_five 4y ago
It's really funny to see this kind of covid hero discussion where one accuses people who aren't ok with vaccine policies of being "conspiracy theorists" (ignoring the difference between disagreement with compelled vaccination and believing in some imagined conspiracy) and then getting a reply theorizing that there is a conspiracy amongst "adversaries of the west" that's driving disagreement with authoritarian vaccine policy. You can't make this stuff up
- nope96 4y ago
  "authoritarian vaccine policy", what are you talking about?
  - rajup 4y ago
    Need (or at least used to need) a vaccine to work, eat and travel in the USA sounds authoritarian to me, I believe that's what the GP was taking about.
  - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
    > "authoritarian vaccine policy", what are you talking about? The class action lawsuits, and all the healthcare providers, primarily nurses, fired for refusing the vaccine. All this weirdness around having to write cases for exemption, being tracked in a database, among other things.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  https://www.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-propaganda-report/ https://www.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-... > The media multiplier effect can, at times, create disinformation storms with potentially dangerous effects for those Russia perceives as adversaries at the international, national, and local level. In the past, Russia has leveraged this dynamic to shield itself from criticism for its involvement in malign activity. This approach also allows Russia to be opportunistic, such as with COVID-19, where it has used the global pandemic as a hook to push longstanding disinformation and propaganda narratives. Screenshot of a Geopolitica.ru article promoting conspiracy theories around Bill Gates. > Bill Gates is linked to the COVID-19 outbreak and uses the pandemic to implant microchips “in whole of humanity [sic].” COVID-19 vaccines are a fraud spearheaded by Gates and Big Pharma. https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/io/news/virality-project-final-report https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/io/news/virality-project-fina... > While all nations have engaged in some form of diplomacy or messaging related to vaccines, the Virality Project focused on observing state media and social media networks linked to Russia, China, and Iran. These three nations not only promoted their own efforts, but also attempted to undermine their rivals. It's not a conspiracy.
  - Dah00n 4y ago
    I don't disagree with you but using US sources when talking about Russian disinformation is like using Russian sources when talking about US disinformation.
  - BrainVirus 4y ago
    This flavor of argument-by-insinuation is getting really, really old. Dismissing people or statement because they sound vaguely similar to some foreign source is in itself an obvious propaganda technique that uses exactly the same mentality as the dumbest conspiracy theories out there.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      No. The poster said: > I would not be surprised if there is an effort by some states to discredit the vaccine on English speaking forums. Their claim was that adversaries are spreading vaccine disinformation. This is backed up by evidence. The only claim being made is that adversaries are doing this.
      - BrainVirus 4y ago
        >Their claim was that adversaries are spreading vaccine disinformation. This is backed up by evidence. Their implied claim was that the comment is relevant to the current discussion. That's insinuation. BTW, did you notice that the very first reference in your reputable report was to NYT, which says very similar things and in turn cites declassified intelligence. Government citing NYT citing government. Even ignoring its dubious quality, the report is dated August 2020, which predates all the Covid vaccines and vaccine-related policies.
  - t-3 4y ago
    Just because the Russians are saying it doesn't mean anyone has to be propagandized to also say it. Assuming your counterparts in a discussion have been led to their views through deception is rather infantilizing. The Bill gates microchips stuff is totally irrelavent.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  I sat with people who told me they were hesitant to vaccinate, that they heard different things left and right and didn't know what to do and would wait until it was mandatory to decide if they would get the vaccine or not. This went on for months. I didn't push them to vaccinate or anything like that, I decided it was better to keep quiet about it and maintain the relationship. Then one day I realized they were gaslighting me, organizing protests against covid measures and to regain their right to party, circulating fake news among themselves about how our government head was running pedophile ring and how the deaths were fake. etc., when suddenly they shouted at me how the government was making their life hell on purpose. I cut them off. I realized there were strong parallels with the behavior of cult members I knew long ago. They lie. They lie to appear open-minded, hesitant. Like random Chinese posters discussing alternate interpretation of Tien An Men ("it was a western fabricated lie!" "ah thanks, I never thought about that and it's intriguing, thanks for offering a more reasonable interpretation". Now when I smell someone is using the same tactics I flip off. But on HN I am not even bothering anymore. Conversations about long covid looks like conversation with covid deniers from two years ago and it almost always end up in dictionary/akshually cherry-picking battle. All that to say that, yeah, I believe there's a lot of conspiracy theorists among people who aren't OK with Covid vaccine policies. /rant
jonathanstrange 4y ago
What you say is true and has been corroborated by intelligence reports. https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign-aims-to-undermine-confidence-in-pfizer-other-covid-19-vaccines-u-s-officials-say-11615129200 https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign...

by nope96 4y ago

version_five 4y ago

It's really funny to see this kind of covid hero discussion where one accuses people who aren't ok with vaccine policies of being "conspiracy theorists" (ignoring the difference between disagreement with compelled vaccination and believing in some imagined conspiracy) and then getting a reply theorizing that there is a conspiracy amongst "adversaries of the west" that's driving disagreement with authoritarian vaccine policy. You can't make this stuff up

nope96 4y ago
"authoritarian vaccine policy", what are you talking about?
- rajup 4y ago
  Need (or at least used to need) a vaccine to work, eat and travel in the USA sounds authoritarian to me, I believe that's what the GP was taking about.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  > "authoritarian vaccine policy", what are you talking about? The class action lawsuits, and all the healthcare providers, primarily nurses, fired for refusing the vaccine. All this weirdness around having to write cases for exemption, being tracked in a database, among other things.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
https://www.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-propaganda-report/ https://www.state.gov/russias-pillars-of-disinformation-and-... > The media multiplier effect can, at times, create disinformation storms with potentially dangerous effects for those Russia perceives as adversaries at the international, national, and local level. In the past, Russia has leveraged this dynamic to shield itself from criticism for its involvement in malign activity. This approach also allows Russia to be opportunistic, such as with COVID-19, where it has used the global pandemic as a hook to push longstanding disinformation and propaganda narratives. Screenshot of a Geopolitica.ru article promoting conspiracy theories around Bill Gates. > Bill Gates is linked to the COVID-19 outbreak and uses the pandemic to implant microchips “in whole of humanity [sic].” COVID-19 vaccines are a fraud spearheaded by Gates and Big Pharma. https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/io/news/virality-project-final-report https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/io/news/virality-project-fina... > While all nations have engaged in some form of diplomacy or messaging related to vaccines, the Virality Project focused on observing state media and social media networks linked to Russia, China, and Iran. These three nations not only promoted their own efforts, but also attempted to undermine their rivals. It's not a conspiracy.
- Dah00n 4y ago
  I don't disagree with you but using US sources when talking about Russian disinformation is like using Russian sources when talking about US disinformation.
- BrainVirus 4y ago
  This flavor of argument-by-insinuation is getting really, really old. Dismissing people or statement because they sound vaguely similar to some foreign source is in itself an obvious propaganda technique that uses exactly the same mentality as the dumbest conspiracy theories out there.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    No. The poster said: > I would not be surprised if there is an effort by some states to discredit the vaccine on English speaking forums. Their claim was that adversaries are spreading vaccine disinformation. This is backed up by evidence. The only claim being made is that adversaries are doing this.
    - BrainVirus 4y ago
      >Their claim was that adversaries are spreading vaccine disinformation. This is backed up by evidence. Their implied claim was that the comment is relevant to the current discussion. That's insinuation. BTW, did you notice that the very first reference in your reputable report was to NYT, which says very similar things and in turn cites declassified intelligence. Government citing NYT citing government. Even ignoring its dubious quality, the report is dated August 2020, which predates all the Covid vaccines and vaccine-related policies.
- t-3 4y ago
  Just because the Russians are saying it doesn't mean anyone has to be propagandized to also say it. Assuming your counterparts in a discussion have been led to their views through deception is rather infantilizing. The Bill gates microchips stuff is totally irrelavent.
johnchristopher 4y ago
I sat with people who told me they were hesitant to vaccinate, that they heard different things left and right and didn't know what to do and would wait until it was mandatory to decide if they would get the vaccine or not. This went on for months. I didn't push them to vaccinate or anything like that, I decided it was better to keep quiet about it and maintain the relationship. Then one day I realized they were gaslighting me, organizing protests against covid measures and to regain their right to party, circulating fake news among themselves about how our government head was running pedophile ring and how the deaths were fake. etc., when suddenly they shouted at me how the government was making their life hell on purpose. I cut them off. I realized there were strong parallels with the behavior of cult members I knew long ago. They lie. They lie to appear open-minded, hesitant. Like random Chinese posters discussing alternate interpretation of Tien An Men ("it was a western fabricated lie!" "ah thanks, I never thought about that and it's intriguing, thanks for offering a more reasonable interpretation". Now when I smell someone is using the same tactics I flip off. But on HN I am not even bothering anymore. Conversations about long covid looks like conversation with covid deniers from two years ago and it almost always end up in dictionary/akshually cherry-picking battle. All that to say that, yeah, I believe there's a lot of conspiracy theorists among people who aren't OK with Covid vaccine policies. /rant

jonathanstrange 4y ago

What you say is true and has been corroborated by intelligence reports. https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign-aims-to-undermine-confidence-in-pfizer-other-covid-19-vaccines-u-s-officials-say-11615129200 https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-disinformation-campaign...