4 ms·

I haven't turned off a cell phone while flying for almost ten years now. I refuse to be part of any safety or security charade.

by dev_jim 15y ago

BonesLF 15y ago
Almost there with you. Charade is useful if it prevents a confrontation with someone who does not understand the security theater. Thus, I turn the screen off for the 3 seconds it takes the flight attendant to walk by. I've been doing this for years. A fair compromise? Silly, but effective perhaps.
- dev_jim 15y ago
  I find that 90% of flight attendants could care less as long as you're not showing the phone in plain sight. Turning it off briefly (event with it still in your hands) or cupping it with your hands and turning sideways so they can't see the screen is enough for them to check the boxes.
- Osiris 15y ago
  I turn off my cell phone simply to save the battery power. You don't get any signal above a few thousand feet, so why not save on battery for the next few hours? Heck, sometimes I even use my laptop's USB to charge the phone in-flight so it's full when I land. I think the dumbest thing is having to turn off a Kindle. Is that even possible? Pushing the power button just goes to screensaver which uses exactly as much power as when you're actually using it.
  - lucasjung 15y ago
    >I think the dumbest thing is having to turn off a Kindle. Is that even possible? Pushing the power button just goes to screensaver which uses exactly as much power as when you're actually using it. You can turn a kindle off by holding the power switch for a few seconds. I do this every time I fly, for both takeoff and landing (I leave the wireless off for the entire flight). Given how low-power a kindle is, I find it highly unlikely that it could cause interference (unless you leave the wireless on, which could definitely cause interference), but I've seen enough surprising results from Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Safety of Flight Tests (SOFT) to know that you just can't make assumptions about stuff like that.
jiggy2011 15y ago
I don't really understand the point of this unless it is done purely as an act of protest. As soon as you make or receive a call your going to be confronted with lots of dirty looks from other passengers and an angry flight attendant who will pretty much make you turn it off anyway.
lucasjung 15y ago
I have a BS in EE, a masters in Aeronautical Engineering, and fly for a living. I currently work in developmental flight test. Allow me to explain a couple of reasons why you should turn off your cell phone when flying: 1: It is not a "safety charade." See my other posts about EMC in this topic. 2: Even if you don't care about anybody else's safety, or even your own for that matter, it's still in your own best interest to turn off your phone when you go flying: if you leave your phone on, it will spend the whole flight looking for a signal, and you'll land with a dead battery.
- dev_jim 15y ago
  1. I have a masters in EE, but more importantly I have common sense that tells me that millions of flights have been conducted in the cell phone era without an issue. Please stop the fear mongering on this. 2. I put it into WiFi only mode about 10 minutes after takeoff when I can't get a signal anymore and just turn it back on when we are a half hour within landing. It allows me at least a half hour of emails and texts to come in at each end of the flight. That's a lot of productivity saved.
  - lucasjung 15y ago
    >millions of flights have been conducted in the cell phone era without an issue. First of all, this is not true. I have read aviation safety reports that cite consumer electronics as a contributing factor. Second of all, the fact that no major mishap has been attributed to consumer electronics is probably due in large part to the controls in place. There may be a few individuals who don't care about safety who disregard the rules, but as long as the overwhelming majority of passengers comply, the chances of an incident are dramatically reduced. Aviators are tought a "swiss cheese" model of mishaps: there are safety precautions in place (equipment, procedures, etc.) to prevent mishaps, which you can visualize as slices of swiss cheese, with holes in them. The holes represent things that prevent a particular precaution from working properly: broken equipment, failure to comply with procedures, etc. A hazard might make it past one precaution by slipping through one of these holes, but then get stopped by some other precaution. A mishap occurs when enough holes line up in a row for a hazard to get all of the way through. In most mishaps, there are three holes that lined up to make the mishap happen. For example, bad weather alone would probably not cause a mishap, nor would a hyrdaulic malfunction alone or a slightly low fuel load alone, but when you get all three together, shit gets out of hand and a mishap can happen. On a flight where nothing else goes wrong, consumer electronics alone are not going to cause a mishap, but on a flight where a couple of other things are going wrong, a single cell phone might be all it takes to tip the scales from "a really bad day for the pilots" to "mishap." >Please stop the fear mongering on this. I have personally experienced degradation of safety-critical systems in-flight due to EMI from on-board devices, including devices that are not designed to be transmitters. Nothing you carry onto a plane is going to cause it to explode without warning or go completely out of control (which are a couple of straw-men I have seen in this topic). What can, and does, happen, is that safety-critical avionics don't work right. During critical phases of flight (takeoff, departure, approach, and landing), this could be a contributor to a mishap. If your ILS goes haywire when you're in the middle of shooting an approach in actual IMC, you've got a big problem; likewise, if you can't talk on certain radio frequencies in the terminal area due to noise interference, you've got a problem. >I put it into WiFi only mode about 10 minutes after takeoff when I can't get a signal anymore and just turn it back on when we are a half hour within landing. If you have a GSM phone, then allow me to speak for every pilot you have ever been a passenger to: fuck you. No, really: fuck you. Put your GSM phone next to a cheap set of speakers: it will periodically make a noise (especially if you are sending/receiving calls or data, or if your phone is searching for the network). The same thing happens with most ILS receivers and with the ICS on many planes. So first, they'll have to use some other approach rather than ILS, which may not have been their primary plan. Then, imagine trying to run checklists and land a plane with that shit going off in your ears. Even if you have a CDMA phone, there's a good chance you're interfering with something, making the lives of your pilots that much harder at a time when they can ill afford additional distractions.
gnaffle 15y ago
..yet you enjoy the fruits of the "better safe than sorry" safety charade every time you board an airplane. NASA has some studies on RF interference (linked from Wikipedia) if you're interested in reading up on it. Even if it doesn't cause big problems, it's nice of you to minimize the risk of interference and make the pilots job a bit less stressful.

I haven't turned off a cell phone while flying for almost ten years now. I refuse to be part of any safety or security charade.

by dev_jim 15y ago

I haven't turned off a cell phone while flying for almost ten years now. I refuse to be part of any safety or security charade.

BonesLF 15y ago

Almost there with you. Charade is useful if it prevents a confrontation with someone who does not understand the security theater. Thus, I turn the screen off for the 3 seconds it takes the flight attendant to walk by. I've been doing this for years. A fair compromise? Silly, but effective perhaps.

dev_jim 15y ago
I find that 90% of flight attendants could care less as long as you're not showing the phone in plain sight. Turning it off briefly (event with it still in your hands) or cupping it with your hands and turning sideways so they can't see the screen is enough for them to check the boxes.
Osiris 15y ago
I turn off my cell phone simply to save the battery power. You don't get any signal above a few thousand feet, so why not save on battery for the next few hours? Heck, sometimes I even use my laptop's USB to charge the phone in-flight so it's full when I land. I think the dumbest thing is having to turn off a Kindle. Is that even possible? Pushing the power button just goes to screensaver which uses exactly as much power as when you're actually using it.
- lucasjung 15y ago
  >I think the dumbest thing is having to turn off a Kindle. Is that even possible? Pushing the power button just goes to screensaver which uses exactly as much power as when you're actually using it. You can turn a kindle off by holding the power switch for a few seconds. I do this every time I fly, for both takeoff and landing (I leave the wireless off for the entire flight). Given how low-power a kindle is, I find it highly unlikely that it could cause interference (unless you leave the wireless on, which could definitely cause interference), but I've seen enough surprising results from Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Safety of Flight Tests (SOFT) to know that you just can't make assumptions about stuff like that.

jiggy2011 15y ago

I don't really understand the point of this unless it is done purely as an act of protest. As soon as you make or receive a call your going to be confronted with lots of dirty looks from other passengers and an angry flight attendant who will pretty much make you turn it off anyway.

lucasjung 15y ago

I have a BS in EE, a masters in Aeronautical Engineering, and fly for a living. I currently work in developmental flight test. Allow me to explain a couple of reasons why you should turn off your cell phone when flying: 1: It is not a "safety charade." See my other posts about EMC in this topic. 2: Even if you don't care about anybody else's safety, or even your own for that matter, it's still in your own best interest to turn off your phone when you go flying: if you leave your phone on, it will spend the whole flight looking for a signal, and you'll land with a dead battery.

dev_jim 15y ago
1. I have a masters in EE, but more importantly I have common sense that tells me that millions of flights have been conducted in the cell phone era without an issue. Please stop the fear mongering on this. 2. I put it into WiFi only mode about 10 minutes after takeoff when I can't get a signal anymore and just turn it back on when we are a half hour within landing. It allows me at least a half hour of emails and texts to come in at each end of the flight. That's a lot of productivity saved.
- lucasjung 15y ago
  >millions of flights have been conducted in the cell phone era without an issue. First of all, this is not true. I have read aviation safety reports that cite consumer electronics as a contributing factor. Second of all, the fact that no major mishap has been attributed to consumer electronics is probably due in large part to the controls in place. There may be a few individuals who don't care about safety who disregard the rules, but as long as the overwhelming majority of passengers comply, the chances of an incident are dramatically reduced. Aviators are tought a "swiss cheese" model of mishaps: there are safety precautions in place (equipment, procedures, etc.) to prevent mishaps, which you can visualize as slices of swiss cheese, with holes in them. The holes represent things that prevent a particular precaution from working properly: broken equipment, failure to comply with procedures, etc. A hazard might make it past one precaution by slipping through one of these holes, but then get stopped by some other precaution. A mishap occurs when enough holes line up in a row for a hazard to get all of the way through. In most mishaps, there are three holes that lined up to make the mishap happen. For example, bad weather alone would probably not cause a mishap, nor would a hyrdaulic malfunction alone or a slightly low fuel load alone, but when you get all three together, shit gets out of hand and a mishap can happen. On a flight where nothing else goes wrong, consumer electronics alone are not going to cause a mishap, but on a flight where a couple of other things are going wrong, a single cell phone might be all it takes to tip the scales from "a really bad day for the pilots" to "mishap." >Please stop the fear mongering on this. I have personally experienced degradation of safety-critical systems in-flight due to EMI from on-board devices, including devices that are not designed to be transmitters. Nothing you carry onto a plane is going to cause it to explode without warning or go completely out of control (which are a couple of straw-men I have seen in this topic). What can, and does, happen, is that safety-critical avionics don't work right. During critical phases of flight (takeoff, departure, approach, and landing), this could be a contributor to a mishap. If your ILS goes haywire when you're in the middle of shooting an approach in actual IMC, you've got a big problem; likewise, if you can't talk on certain radio frequencies in the terminal area due to noise interference, you've got a problem. >I put it into WiFi only mode about 10 minutes after takeoff when I can't get a signal anymore and just turn it back on when we are a half hour within landing. If you have a GSM phone, then allow me to speak for every pilot you have ever been a passenger to: fuck you. No, really: fuck you. Put your GSM phone next to a cheap set of speakers: it will periodically make a noise (especially if you are sending/receiving calls or data, or if your phone is searching for the network). The same thing happens with most ILS receivers and with the ICS on many planes. So first, they'll have to use some other approach rather than ILS, which may not have been their primary plan. Then, imagine trying to run checklists and land a plane with that shit going off in your ears. Even if you have a CDMA phone, there's a good chance you're interfering with something, making the lives of your pilots that much harder at a time when they can ill afford additional distractions.

gnaffle 15y ago

..yet you enjoy the fruits of the "better safe than sorry" safety charade every time you board an airplane. NASA has some studies on RF interference (linked from Wikipedia) if you're interested in reading up on it. Even if it doesn't cause big problems, it's nice of you to minimize the risk of interference and make the pilots job a bit less stressful.