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I spent a solid week in the planning office trying to get a permit to build a deck on my property. After visiting five desks, redrawing plans every night to fix

I spent a solid week in the planning office trying to get a permit to build a deck on my property. After visiting five desks, redrawing plans every night to fix their absurd nits at the final window the lady pushed the plans back across the desk. “I just don’t like the professionalism of these drawing.” Drawings were made by a contractor with 20 years experience. You know why housing doesn’t get built in San Francisco? That office. 100% of the problem.

newswasboring 4y ago
What does that even mean? Were the plans too professional or not professional enough?
s5300 4y ago
I think mobsters used to kill people like this.
- hahaxdxd123 4y ago
  In some cities, these departments are the legacies of the mob.
- Elv13 4y ago
  There was a (government) public investigation / shame campaign a few years ago ago the construction industry in Montreal, Canada. One of the person who testified in exchange for not being jailed was "Mr. 3%", a member of the office who approve (public) construction projects. He took 3% of the project total cost (in bribes) from the top 30 contractors in exchange for making sure their permits requests never got in these artificial rejection loops. The bureaucracy, just like the old taxi industry, is about keeping smaller players out, not enforcing the codes.
  - kennend3 4y ago
    > The bureaucracy, just like the old taxi industry, is about keeping smaller players out, not enforcing the codes. See my post above.. it is also about feeding the bureaucracy itself as well. Some places (like where i live) actually go driving around looking for construction taking place so they can issue "stop work" orders and force you to get permits. they use these permits to ask for more federal/provincial money as they are 'growing'. They also grow the bureaucracy machine, which allows them to hire more people to drive around looking for lumber on your yard, to make you buy more permits...
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Honestly paying 3% to make sure your shit gets approved sounds great. It's kind of like dealing with a hooker instead of a wife -- at least you know exactly what it's going to cost after you leave. More corruption at this point would almost be a good thing. As things stand there's basically no personal incentive for inspectors to actually approve projects.
    - Elv13 4y ago
      It was 3% as long as you were part of the conspirator and make it extra painful to everybody else. What the conspirators wanted out of this was to control the number of players so they could limit supply and control rates. Paying people to do nothing while you wait for the permits is how you bankrupt small contractors.
beebeepka 4y ago
Sounds like their job is to not let you do anything. Smells like corruption, unless no one is allowed to build anything which I doubt but could be wrong about
alephnerd 4y ago
This is a good overview of the dysfunction of the DBI - https://missionlocal.org/2021/02/san-francisco-department-of-building-inspection-deputy-director-iii/ https://missionlocal.org/2021/02/san-francisco-department-of...
ed25519FUUU 4y ago
Imagine a candidate saying he/she was going to fire 90% of the planning office and end environment and community impact studies. Do you think that candidate will succeed with SF’s voters?
nerfhammer 4y ago
you obviously should have hired the services of a "permit expediter" which is totally not a legal form of bribery
jonny_eh 4y ago
She was likely expecting a bribe.
diebeforei485 4y ago
The fact that they use paper and not digital drawings is part of how they keep the corruption going.
testfoobar 4y ago
In some countries, this might be corruption, directing business to "preferred" vendors, or it by straight up bribe seeking actions. In SF and around the bay, it seems to be straight up we don't want to build in our city, so go away.
- idontpost 4y ago
  Even in SF that was straight up solicitation for a bribe.
kennend3 4y ago
I live in a small town in Ontario just outside Toronto and this problem is GLOBAL. I did a walkout basement years ago, the f'ing building inspector came to my house every single day. It got to the point he was stopping by for lunch simply to abuse my wife's hospitality. we had enough and finally asked him what he wants. He basically told us to call the city and tell them what a great job he was doing. We did this just to get rid of him. I dont think the government has any clue what the lower level people are actually doing. It isnt about "building permits" but government empire building and control.
opportune 4y ago
https://missionlocal.org/2020/03/department-of-building-inspection-head-tom-hui-suspended-allegations-of-wrongdoing-stretching-back-to-2011-uncovered-during-city-attorney-probe-of-mohammed-nuru/ https://missionlocal.org/2020/03/department-of-building-insp... Ironically some people complained about Hui from the perspective of opposing development (signing off on things he shouldn’t have). But it’s two sides of the same coin - making housing so hard to build is what creates the market for “expediters” and the opportunity for corruption in the housing bureaucracy
thebradbain 4y ago
This is why in Los Angeles I've noticed there's so much un-permitted work done without anyone batting an eye. That's also why you have so many un-permitted ADUs in this city complete with plumbing and electrical. Fence higher than 6 feet? That's technically against the law and you need a special permit, but no one cares and contractors will build without one. We're talking about LA, where concrete walls over 10 feet around homes are common. Pouring more than 30 square feet of concrete, or replacing a driveway? You need a permit. But guess what, yup, contractors will do that without batting an eye. Replacing a sink or toilet? Yup, you need a permit. Installing a built-in book shelf that technically takes away square footage? You need a permit. New windows? Permit! New showerhead, that's a permit too – yes, actually. And all of these have fees (some of which are more than the cost of the change), inspections, and will be factored into the tax assessment. These are requirements for both single family homes and multi-family developments. While LA has no shortage of laws on the books, I'm thankful that at least compared to San Francisco contractors have no hesitation cutting right through it. It might have to do with the fact that unlike SF, LA has the space to keep things out of site from overly-nosy neighbors.

newswasboring 4y ago

What does that even mean? Were the plans too professional or not professional enough?

s5300 4y ago

I think mobsters used to kill people like this.

hahaxdxd123 4y ago
In some cities, these departments are the legacies of the mob.
Elv13 4y ago
There was a (government) public investigation / shame campaign a few years ago ago the construction industry in Montreal, Canada. One of the person who testified in exchange for not being jailed was "Mr. 3%", a member of the office who approve (public) construction projects. He took 3% of the project total cost (in bribes) from the top 30 contractors in exchange for making sure their permits requests never got in these artificial rejection loops. The bureaucracy, just like the old taxi industry, is about keeping smaller players out, not enforcing the codes.
- kennend3 4y ago
  > The bureaucracy, just like the old taxi industry, is about keeping smaller players out, not enforcing the codes. See my post above.. it is also about feeding the bureaucracy itself as well. Some places (like where i live) actually go driving around looking for construction taking place so they can issue "stop work" orders and force you to get permits. they use these permits to ask for more federal/provincial money as they are 'growing'. They also grow the bureaucracy machine, which allows them to hire more people to drive around looking for lumber on your yard, to make you buy more permits...
- notch656a 4y ago
  Honestly paying 3% to make sure your shit gets approved sounds great. It's kind of like dealing with a hooker instead of a wife -- at least you know exactly what it's going to cost after you leave. More corruption at this point would almost be a good thing. As things stand there's basically no personal incentive for inspectors to actually approve projects.
  - Elv13 4y ago
    It was 3% as long as you were part of the conspirator and make it extra painful to everybody else. What the conspirators wanted out of this was to control the number of players so they could limit supply and control rates. Paying people to do nothing while you wait for the permits is how you bankrupt small contractors.

beebeepka 4y ago

Sounds like their job is to not let you do anything. Smells like corruption, unless no one is allowed to build anything which I doubt but could be wrong about

alephnerd 4y ago

This is a good overview of the dysfunction of the DBI - https://missionlocal.org/2021/02/san-francisco-department-of-building-inspection-deputy-director-iii/ https://missionlocal.org/2021/02/san-francisco-department-of...

ed25519FUUU 4y ago

Imagine a candidate saying he/she was going to fire 90% of the planning office and end environment and community impact studies. Do you think that candidate will succeed with SF’s voters?

nerfhammer 4y ago

you obviously should have hired the services of a "permit expediter" which is totally not a legal form of bribery

jonny_eh 4y ago

She was likely expecting a bribe.

diebeforei485 4y ago

The fact that they use paper and not digital drawings is part of how they keep the corruption going.

testfoobar 4y ago

In some countries, this might be corruption, directing business to "preferred" vendors, or it by straight up bribe seeking actions. In SF and around the bay, it seems to be straight up we don't want to build in our city, so go away.

idontpost 4y ago
Even in SF that was straight up solicitation for a bribe.

kennend3 4y ago

I live in a small town in Ontario just outside Toronto and this problem is GLOBAL. I did a walkout basement years ago, the f'ing building inspector came to my house every single day. It got to the point he was stopping by for lunch simply to abuse my wife's hospitality. we had enough and finally asked him what he wants. He basically told us to call the city and tell them what a great job he was doing. We did this just to get rid of him. I dont think the government has any clue what the lower level people are actually doing. It isnt about "building permits" but government empire building and control.

opportune 4y ago

https://missionlocal.org/2020/03/department-of-building-inspection-head-tom-hui-suspended-allegations-of-wrongdoing-stretching-back-to-2011-uncovered-during-city-attorney-probe-of-mohammed-nuru/ https://missionlocal.org/2020/03/department-of-building-insp... Ironically some people complained about Hui from the perspective of opposing development (signing off on things he shouldn’t have). But it’s two sides of the same coin - making housing so hard to build is what creates the market for “expediters” and the opportunity for corruption in the housing bureaucracy

thebradbain 4y ago

This is why in Los Angeles I've noticed there's so much un-permitted work done without anyone batting an eye. That's also why you have so many un-permitted ADUs in this city complete with plumbing and electrical. Fence higher than 6 feet? That's technically against the law and you need a special permit, but no one cares and contractors will build without one. We're talking about LA, where concrete walls over 10 feet around homes are common. Pouring more than 30 square feet of concrete, or replacing a driveway? You need a permit. But guess what, yup, contractors will do that without batting an eye. Replacing a sink or toilet? Yup, you need a permit. Installing a built-in book shelf that technically takes away square footage? You need a permit. New windows? Permit! New showerhead, that's a permit too – yes, actually. And all of these have fees (some of which are more than the cost of the change), inspections, and will be factored into the tax assessment. These are requirements for both single family homes and multi-family developments. While LA has no shortage of laws on the books, I'm thankful that at least compared to San Francisco contractors have no hesitation cutting right through it. It might have to do with the fact that unlike SF, LA has the space to keep things out of site from overly-nosy neighbors.