8 ms·

The FAA/TSA alway justify things in terms of "safety" and "security", but never calculate the massive costs associated with seizing billions in toiletries and p

The FAA/TSA alway justify things in terms of "safety" and "security", but never calculate the massive costs associated with seizing billions in toiletries and productivity. Let's calculate that. There are about 800 million[0] passengers on domestic and foreign owned airlines in the US market, with many people flying more than once per year. Each person is taxed between 1-2 hours in terms of "safety" regulations, ranging from backscatter scans to nail clipper seizures to water bottle appropriations. Once on the plane, they are again taxed by about 15-30 minutes on each end from the ban on use of laptops, including the emergency landing song-and-dance that the vast majority[1] of passengers have already seen. So let's say conservatively about 2 hours in total. So 1.6 billion hours per year. At a conservative estimate of $10 per hour, that's $16 billion per year. This does not include the $8.1 billion wasted on the TSA itself. [0] http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-03-29-airline-passengers-revenue-decline_N.htm http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-03-29-airline-pa... [1] In the unusual circumstance that a first time flyer is on board, a video could instead be played during check-in online, in the lounge, or on the seat back rather than slowing everyone down to look at the flight attendant. Would not be surprised if the percentage of first-time flyers on US domestic flights is less than 5%.

simcop2387 15y ago
Delta actually does the seat back (or on the overhead monitors depending on the age of the plane) thing during taxiing to the runway. You can actually go watch it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpzUo_kbFY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpzUo_kbFY The camera angles and lighting are a bit surreal when watching it after having been up for 96 hours though.
DaniFong 15y ago
In another, more macabre calculus: 1.6 billion hours per year = 182648 person years per year Divided by forty (perhaps the average number of years of life expectancy remaining for fliers) = 4566 remaining lifetimes stolen = equivalent of 4566 deaths which is more deaths than caused by 9/11. Every year.
- artursapek 15y ago
  That's a ridiculous way to look at it.
  - moultano 15y ago
    Why? What common units would you convert it to?
  - DaniFong 15y ago
    Out of genuine curiosity, why is it ridiculous? Stolen time is stolen time, no?
    - artursapek 15y ago
      All you do your entire life is what you're confined to doing on an iPad in an airplane? It's not that huge of a loss. You're not dead for half an hour on each flight.
      - morsch 15y ago
        No, but I sometimes wish I was dead for just that half an hour.
      - DaniFong 15y ago
        Haha, you make a good point. Nonetheless, flying could be an amazing experience. But fliers are some of the least happy people because they are treated either like criminas, children, or cattle. If the time isn't quite stolen, it is at least spoiled.
        artursapek 15y ago
        All I can say is to watch Louis CK's rant about how everything is amazing and nobody's happy. I fly several times a year and I honestly enjoy it. People who complain about their flying experience need thicker skin and more problems in their lives.
  - 15y ago
city41 15y ago
I don't understand how planes are seizing productivity when the nearest competitor -- an illegally driven car -- is about 5 times slower. Yes they have quite a bit of overhead during take off, landing, baggage claim, driving to the airport, security screening, etc. But what else can reduce a trip's time from days to hours? The amount of time wasted in that overhead compared to the time gained is minuscule.
- ams6110 15y ago
  Unless you are going a long way, it may well be faster to drive. For me: 1 hour drive to the airport, 1+ hours at the airport for check-in, security, etc, 1 hour at destination to retrieve baggage, get a rental car, and get out of the airport... plus the time of the flight. If I can drive in under 6 hours, I'll seriously consider doing that rather than deal with all the hassle of air travel.
  - tryitnow 15y ago
    That's exactly how I view, although I put a pretty heavy negative weight on the hassles of navigating around airports, finding parking, gates, etc. With driving I feel a lot more in control. Driving is also a continuous activity, there's minimal transition times (e.g. With flying you've got find a place to park, find your gate, etc).
  - fosk 15y ago
    Except that if you drive for 6 hours, you can't talk on the phone and you can't use your laptop. Your point doesn't make sense to me: if you're willing to drive for 6 hours, you're also willing to stop working during all that time, while if you flight you'll always find some time to work, at the terminal or in the plane.
    - vl 15y ago
      It's actually reverse: you can talk on the phone in a car, but not on the plane (at least for reasonable rate).
    - 15y ago
T-Winsnes 15y ago
Lets say we use an average of 15 minutes for a person to go to the toilet. This includes getting to and from the toilet etc. For ease of calculation we say that each person goes to the toilet twice during a workday. And there are roughly 7 billion people on the planet. That gives us 0.5 hour per person per day * 7 billion people = 3.5 billion wasted hours. At a conservative estimate of $10 per hours, that's $35 billion per year. This does not include money wasted on water for flushing and washing hands! It's clear from this that we have to stop people from going to the toilet during work hours... </sarcasm>
- jacoblyles 15y ago
  It's clear that I get benefits from going to the toilet. I'm not so sure about the TSA.
- mike-cardwell 15y ago
  15 minutes to go to the toilet? I think you need to see a doctor.
  - wlievens 15y ago
    Not if you bring your toilet computer, aka smartphone.
tryitnow 15y ago
That's a great way to look at it. Safety has costs associated with it. So there may be some benefit to all these precautions, but if the probability adjusted benefit doesn't outweigh the costs then it's inadvisable to continue incurring the costs.
gnaffle 15y ago
How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airport the price you pay for getting cheap airfares. You can buy yourself out of this miserable experience by renting a plane. Of course, you might still get a security briefing by the pilot, as part of a checklist that he's already gone through hundreds of times while wasting precious time.
- darklajid 15y ago
  Israel. No, really. Especially iff - you are leaving the country (...) - you are a foreigner (that is: Everything but a citizen) Everybody around me (including the airport) tells me to arrive ~2.5 (some say 2. Some 3) hours early. The procedure consists of 1. waiting in line forever, waiting for the luggage to be scanned 2. a passport check in that line, asking you questions about where you're from, where you stayed, what you did in Israel and if you happen to carry weapons or presents that might be bombs. If they are inclined to waste some time they are going to ask you for more: Do you know people in Israel? What are their names? Where do _those_ live? What's your connection ... it's something between a 3-4 questions interview and a nice interrogation 3. Your luggage was scanned. Someone is going to tell you to go to that place over there and unpack it. If it's your birthday or Fortuna is with you: Go to step 5. 4. Some guy/girl is ripping apart your luggage. Some are gentler, some really completely mess everything up. 5. The ticket counter! Get your ticket.. 6. Wait in line before the security check of you and your carry-on stuff, metal detector, shoe removal station. If you don't have a laptop with you, go to 8 7. Your laptop is suspicious. You have to wake it up from suspend. Close it again. They x-ray it three times. They need to take it to another room, for a special treatment. After 30min they return, the laptop is not suspended anymore. It's off. You are supposed to prove (again) that it's a laptop and not a weapon of mass destruction. Powering it on, booting, logging in is not enough. 'Open a file!'. If you open a picture or a random text file in Notepad, you're good to go. 8. Proceed to the gate, please. You are late for your flight. Remember that for next time and get to the airport earlier, stupid. Yes, it's that bad. Nothing is invented here, all experienced by yours truely. Not all steps are that bad all the time, but .. I wouldn't bet my ticket on having a lucky day..
Selvik 15y ago
How many average human lifespans is 1.6 billion hours?
samstave 15y ago
I would submit that the average wage of fliers is much higher than $10/hour
MPSimmons 15y ago
There's also the safety issue of the items not being stowed which are then made projectiles when a takeoff is aborted or the runway is overshot on landing. I don't want my Kindle embedded in someone's head because I had it out during landing. (It's probably really hard to get the blood off the screen)

simcop2387 15y ago

Delta actually does the seat back (or on the overhead monitors depending on the age of the plane) thing during taxiing to the runway. You can actually go watch it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpzUo_kbFY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpzUo_kbFY The camera angles and lighting are a bit surreal when watching it after having been up for 96 hours though.

DaniFong 15y ago

In another, more macabre calculus: 1.6 billion hours per year = 182648 person years per year Divided by forty (perhaps the average number of years of life expectancy remaining for fliers) = 4566 remaining lifetimes stolen = equivalent of 4566 deaths which is more deaths than caused by 9/11. Every year.

artursapek 15y ago
That's a ridiculous way to look at it.
- moultano 15y ago
  Why? What common units would you convert it to?
- DaniFong 15y ago
  Out of genuine curiosity, why is it ridiculous? Stolen time is stolen time, no?
  - artursapek 15y ago
    All you do your entire life is what you're confined to doing on an iPad in an airplane? It's not that huge of a loss. You're not dead for half an hour on each flight.
    - morsch 15y ago
      No, but I sometimes wish I was dead for just that half an hour.
    - DaniFong 15y ago
      Haha, you make a good point. Nonetheless, flying could be an amazing experience. But fliers are some of the least happy people because they are treated either like criminas, children, or cattle. If the time isn't quite stolen, it is at least spoiled.
      - artursapek 15y ago
        All I can say is to watch Louis CK's rant about how everything is amazing and nobody's happy. I fly several times a year and I honestly enjoy it. People who complain about their flying experience need thicker skin and more problems in their lives.
- 15y ago

city41 15y ago

I don't understand how planes are seizing productivity when the nearest competitor -- an illegally driven car -- is about 5 times slower. Yes they have quite a bit of overhead during take off, landing, baggage claim, driving to the airport, security screening, etc. But what else can reduce a trip's time from days to hours? The amount of time wasted in that overhead compared to the time gained is minuscule.

ams6110 15y ago
Unless you are going a long way, it may well be faster to drive. For me: 1 hour drive to the airport, 1+ hours at the airport for check-in, security, etc, 1 hour at destination to retrieve baggage, get a rental car, and get out of the airport... plus the time of the flight. If I can drive in under 6 hours, I'll seriously consider doing that rather than deal with all the hassle of air travel.
- tryitnow 15y ago
  That's exactly how I view, although I put a pretty heavy negative weight on the hassles of navigating around airports, finding parking, gates, etc. With driving I feel a lot more in control. Driving is also a continuous activity, there's minimal transition times (e.g. With flying you've got find a place to park, find your gate, etc).
- fosk 15y ago
  Except that if you drive for 6 hours, you can't talk on the phone and you can't use your laptop. Your point doesn't make sense to me: if you're willing to drive for 6 hours, you're also willing to stop working during all that time, while if you flight you'll always find some time to work, at the terminal or in the plane.
  - vl 15y ago
    It's actually reverse: you can talk on the phone in a car, but not on the plane (at least for reasonable rate).
  - 15y ago

T-Winsnes 15y ago

Lets say we use an average of 15 minutes for a person to go to the toilet. This includes getting to and from the toilet etc. For ease of calculation we say that each person goes to the toilet twice during a workday. And there are roughly 7 billion people on the planet. That gives us 0.5 hour per person per day * 7 billion people = 3.5 billion wasted hours. At a conservative estimate of $10 per hours, that's $35 billion per year. This does not include money wasted on water for flushing and washing hands! It's clear from this that we have to stop people from going to the toilet during work hours... </sarcasm>

jacoblyles 15y ago
It's clear that I get benefits from going to the toilet. I'm not so sure about the TSA.
mike-cardwell 15y ago
15 minutes to go to the toilet? I think you need to see a doctor.
- wlievens 15y ago
  Not if you bring your toilet computer, aka smartphone.

tryitnow 15y ago

That's a great way to look at it. Safety has costs associated with it. So there may be some benefit to all these precautions, but if the probability adjusted benefit doesn't outweigh the costs then it's inadvisable to continue incurring the costs.

gnaffle 15y ago

How many airports make you spend an hour or two going through security? When flying, I usually spend an hour or two in total at the airport, but that includes check-in, security, waiting for and boarding plane, then de-planing and sometimes waiting for luggage. Not to mention the transport time to and from the airports. Security and safety is a pretty insignificant part of that time, and waiting in line at the airport the price you pay for getting cheap airfares. You can buy yourself out of this miserable experience by renting a plane. Of course, you might still get a security briefing by the pilot, as part of a checklist that he's already gone through hundreds of times while wasting precious time.

darklajid 15y ago
Israel. No, really. Especially iff - you are leaving the country (...) - you are a foreigner (that is: Everything but a citizen) Everybody around me (including the airport) tells me to arrive ~2.5 (some say 2. Some 3) hours early. The procedure consists of 1. waiting in line forever, waiting for the luggage to be scanned 2. a passport check in that line, asking you questions about where you're from, where you stayed, what you did in Israel and if you happen to carry weapons or presents that might be bombs. If they are inclined to waste some time they are going to ask you for more: Do you know people in Israel? What are their names? Where do _those_ live? What's your connection ... it's something between a 3-4 questions interview and a nice interrogation 3. Your luggage was scanned. Someone is going to tell you to go to that place over there and unpack it. If it's your birthday or Fortuna is with you: Go to step 5. 4. Some guy/girl is ripping apart your luggage. Some are gentler, some really completely mess everything up. 5. The ticket counter! Get your ticket.. 6. Wait in line before the security check of you and your carry-on stuff, metal detector, shoe removal station. If you don't have a laptop with you, go to 8 7. Your laptop is suspicious. You have to wake it up from suspend. Close it again. They x-ray it three times. They need to take it to another room, for a special treatment. After 30min they return, the laptop is not suspended anymore. It's off. You are supposed to prove (again) that it's a laptop and not a weapon of mass destruction. Powering it on, booting, logging in is not enough. 'Open a file!'. If you open a picture or a random text file in Notepad, you're good to go. 8. Proceed to the gate, please. You are late for your flight. Remember that for next time and get to the airport earlier, stupid. Yes, it's that bad. Nothing is invented here, all experienced by yours truely. Not all steps are that bad all the time, but .. I wouldn't bet my ticket on having a lucky day..

Selvik 15y ago

How many average human lifespans is 1.6 billion hours?

samstave 15y ago

I would submit that the average wage of fliers is much higher than $10/hour

MPSimmons 15y ago

There's also the safety issue of the items not being stowed which are then made projectiles when a takeoff is aborted or the runway is overshot on landing. I don't want my Kindle embedded in someone's head because I had it out during landing. (It's probably really hard to get the blood off the screen)