4 ms·

[Deleted]

cedricd 4y ago
You're definitely right, but one mitigating factor is that Starlink satellites are in a pretty low orbit. They'll naturally decay relatively quickly and drop out of orbit at end of life. Edit: a link that goes over some of this https://www.spacex.com/updates/#sustainability https://www.spacex.com/updates/#sustainability
c54 4y ago
I agree that the debris problem is one of those commons-type issues that’ll cost way more to fix than if we’d prevented it in the first place. However, for starlink specifically aren’t the satellites all low enough to deorbit and burn up automatically within 5 years? This should eliminate the orbital debris problem for this constellation specifically. A different problem is what happens with all the burnt up aluminum and other metals in the high atmosphere. I saw a post mentioning this once recently but also don’t know much about the scale or effects of this problem.
- TheCowboy 4y ago
  [Deleted]
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    If something perturbs a Starlink orbit, it might raise apogee but would also lower perigee, which means it would fall out of the sky even faster.
profile53 4y ago
I think this comes from a misunderstanding of orbital dynamics. Without *active* effort by the engines, these sort of satellites are low enough they drop out of orbit within a year or two because of friction against the atmosphere. Basically, these solve their own junk problem
eagerpace 4y ago
They are in a very low earth orbit designed to naturally decay and deorbit in years instead of decades. Yes, there are a lot of them but they did design for this. Not nearly as big a problem as satellites in higher orbits which keep being destroyed into thousands of pieces intentionally with no care for their consequences.
wyager 4y ago
This isn't a serious problem in LEO. Absolute worst case scenario from starlink is we decide there's too much space crap and we wait 5 years for LEO to clear out.
wsinks 4y ago
Totally agree. Not sure I care about Starlink. Chatted once on a Webex with Chris Hadfield about 6-12 months ago, who said that the service was somewhat better and more reliable than his current satellite connection, but also that it wasn't necessarily good enough for a change in mindset. He knew that sometimes he wouldn't have good enough connection for video calls out there, and that was ok by him. I don't think he was thinking about the space dust / negative externalities I find no Google results that are appropriate for "Starlink satellite retrieval" The Starlink website notes "95% of "all components of this design will quickly burn in Earth's atmosphere at the end of each satellite's lifecycle". It's amazing that it's already looking like this: https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/ And of course, it's not black and white. Took me a bit longer... had to remember that Corporate Social Responsibility departments exist, but in February 2022 SpaceX put out a statement at least: https://www.spacex.com/updates/ https://www.spacex.com/updates/ Funny - so they've done a reasonable amount of work to minimize space junk, which is great! Absolutely no mention of helping out astronomers with the line of sight problem.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  > who said that the service was somewhat better and more reliable than his current satellite connection, but also that it wasn't necessarily good enough A beta product isn't perfect, more news at 11. SpaceX has extensively worked with astronomers, including having a working group that meets weekly, presenting at conferences, doing multiple iterations of design changes and so on.

[Deleted]

You're definitely right, but one mitigating factor is that Starlink satellites are in a pretty low orbit. They'll naturally decay relatively quickly and drop out of orbit at end of life. Edit: a link that goes over some of this https://www.spacex.com/updates/#sustainability https://www.spacex.com/updates/#sustainability

c54 4y ago

I agree that the debris problem is one of those commons-type issues that’ll cost way more to fix than if we’d prevented it in the first place. However, for starlink specifically aren’t the satellites all low enough to deorbit and burn up automatically within 5 years? This should eliminate the orbital debris problem for this constellation specifically. A different problem is what happens with all the burnt up aluminum and other metals in the high atmosphere. I saw a post mentioning this once recently but also don’t know much about the scale or effects of this problem.

TheCowboy 4y ago
[Deleted]
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  If something perturbs a Starlink orbit, it might raise apogee but would also lower perigee, which means it would fall out of the sky even faster.

profile53 4y ago

I think this comes from a misunderstanding of orbital dynamics. Without *active* effort by the engines, these sort of satellites are low enough they drop out of orbit within a year or two because of friction against the atmosphere. Basically, these solve their own junk problem

eagerpace 4y ago

They are in a very low earth orbit designed to naturally decay and deorbit in years instead of decades. Yes, there are a lot of them but they did design for this. Not nearly as big a problem as satellites in higher orbits which keep being destroyed into thousands of pieces intentionally with no care for their consequences.

wyager 4y ago

This isn't a serious problem in LEO. Absolute worst case scenario from starlink is we decide there's too much space crap and we wait 5 years for LEO to clear out.

wsinks 4y ago

Totally agree. Not sure I care about Starlink. Chatted once on a Webex with Chris Hadfield about 6-12 months ago, who said that the service was somewhat better and more reliable than his current satellite connection, but also that it wasn't necessarily good enough for a change in mindset. He knew that sometimes he wouldn't have good enough connection for video calls out there, and that was ok by him. I don't think he was thinking about the space dust / negative externalities I find no Google results that are appropriate for "Starlink satellite retrieval" The Starlink website notes "95% of "all components of this design will quickly burn in Earth's atmosphere at the end of each satellite's lifecycle". It's amazing that it's already looking like this: https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/ And of course, it's not black and white. Took me a bit longer... had to remember that Corporate Social Responsibility departments exist, but in February 2022 SpaceX put out a statement at least: https://www.spacex.com/updates/ https://www.spacex.com/updates/ Funny - so they've done a reasonable amount of work to minimize space junk, which is great! Absolutely no mention of helping out astronomers with the line of sight problem.

panick21_ 4y ago
> who said that the service was somewhat better and more reliable than his current satellite connection, but also that it wasn't necessarily good enough A beta product isn't perfect, more news at 11. SpaceX has extensively worked with astronomers, including having a working group that meets weekly, presenting at conferences, doing multiple iterations of design changes and so on.