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What that article says about Bill Gates is that on multiple occasions he had meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. Do you in fact think that that is ethically worse t
by gjm11 4y ago
What that article says about Bill Gates is that on multiple occasions he had meetings with Jeffrey Epstein.
Do you in fact think that that is ethically worse than using a huge company's monopoly power to stifle competition? It seems to me that the latter harmed a lot more people than the former, and in more concrete ways.
For the avoidance of doubt: Jeffrey Epstein harmed some people very severely. But It looks to me as if he would have done pretty much the exact same harms if he had never met Bill Gates at all, and I don't see that Gates is significantly culpable for the harm that Epstein did.
I think there is something badly wrong with any conception of morality according to which it is more important to cut off all contact with certain kinds of Bad People than it is not to do things that do actual substantial harm.
- gadders 4y agoI think the implication is that Jeffrey Epstein made available to his "friends" the services of under-age girls that were sex-trafficed. Is there concrete evidence that Bill Gates had relations with these girls? No. However, if he did then I would say that is worse than bundling two bits of software together, yes. If he didn't then, your view could be correct however I note that it is unlikely he was completely unaware of what was happening.
- gjm11 4y agoFrom "Bill Gates had some meetings with Jeffrey Epstein" to "Bill Gates had sex with underage girls trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein" is ... quite a leap, no? I mean, enough of a leap that I don't see why anyone would make it. (In the absence of further evidence, that is. E.g., someone mentioned that allegedly Gates's acquaintanceship with Epstein was one reason for his divorce. Maybe that's nudge-nudge-wink-wink for "his wife divorced him because he was having sex with underage girls", since otherwise it seems like insufficient grounds for wanting a divorce. But this is all speculation founded on hearsay, and in any case the thing you originally linked to says no more than that Gates met with Epstein a few times.)
- gadders 4y agoI think everyone has made that link, just as they have with Prince Andrew and everyone else that visited Epstein Island. Regardless - even hanging out (and tacitly endorsing) a known pedophile is bad enough.
- ncmncm 4y agoBillg did way, way more than meet Epstein a few times. We have records of Epstein directing Gates to send money to people. Clearly Epstein's primary business was extortion, with a sideline in sex slavery to generate leads for his extortion business. And, he was murdered in custody to prevent his spilling the beans on his primary victims.
- georgemcbay 4y agoAccording to Melinda Gates, Bill Gates' relationship with Jeffrey Epstein was a significant factor in their divorce. Would Jeffrey Epstein and the bad he did in the world exist without Bill Gates (ignoring 'butterfly effect' like questions that we can't answer)? Yes. Did Bill Gates' relationship with Jeffrey Epstein represent an incredibly poor ethical decision? I can't say personally, I don't know the extent of it and who knew what when, but the fact that it was a significant factor in ending a 3-decade long relationship looks pretty damning IMO.
- marcodiego 4y ago> What that article says about Bill Gates is that on multiple occasions he had meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. Interestingly, RMS relation with Epstein is AFAIK zero. He once considered an old friend was involved in a situation where such friend could be doing something illegal without even knowing and the backlash was much stronger. Of course, RMS has his problems; that comment was the straw that broke the camel's back.
- evouga 4y agoI don't see the connection between RMS and Bill Gates? In any case, the backlash against RMS was due to his defense of Minsky, characterization of Epstein's crimes using extremely tone-deaf language (referring to his victims as "entirely willing" members of his "harem," e.g.), musings about the shaky ethical foundation of age of consent laws, etc. Whether you believe the backlash deserved or not, RMS is on the record making controversial statements about Epstein. The only (currently-known) link between Gates and Epstein is that Gates took Epstein's meetings.
- marcodiego 4y ago> referring to his victims as "entirely willing" No no! Stallman wrote: "We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. What you said was the lie that spread so much that created the exaggerated backlash at the time.