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It seems a lot of people went from "cryptocurrency is not money and never will be" to "Tornado Cash helps facilitate money laundering" without realizing that us

It seems a lot of people went from "cryptocurrency is not money and never will be" to "Tornado Cash helps facilitate money laundering" without realizing that using that argument, you're effectively acknowledging that cryptocurrency is money. Tornado Cash was always about Ethereum, not USD. You can't even use Tornado Cash to get in/out USD from the contract. Why not go after the actual entities that are doing the washing/laundering instead of one of the utilities they (and other lawful users) are using as a step in the process?

hef19898 4y ago
Crypto is an asset you can use to move money around, gold, checks, valuables, art all can be used for that. Crypto is just way more easier to move, it doesn't make it money. Real estate is used to launder money, that doesn't turn buildings into money.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > Real estate is used to launder money, that doesn't turn buildings into money. Yet "real estate" is not on OFAC's sanctions list. It's almost like we should go after the people doing the money laundering, instead of things that could possibly be used for money laundering.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    If a certain real estate firm was found to facilitate money laundering, it will be sanctioned and people arrested. If said firm would help North Korea to circumvent sanctions, consequences would be severe. Tornado Cash and some people behind it were targeted, nobody made Crypto illegal.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      > Tornado Cash and some people behind it were targeted, nobody made Crypto illegal. That's incorrect. They literally made it illegal in the US to send/receive transactions to/from a Ethereum contract, which is just code. See https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/recent-actions/20220808 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... and search for 0x910cbd523d972eb0a6f4cae4618ad62622b39dbf (https://etherscan.io/address/0x910cbd523d972eb0a6f4cae4618ad62622b39dbf https://etherscan.io/address/0x910cbd523d972eb0a6f4cae4618ad...) as an example.
      - jakelazaroff 4y ago
        To bring it back to the article, this is kind of like saying "they literally made it illegal to send bullets from a gun, which is just a hunk of metal."
BbzzbB 4y ago
>you're effectively acknowledging that cryptocurrency is money While I've never claimed cryptos are not a kind of cash, it doesn't have to be. For TC to be a money (laundering scheme), it just has to have resale value. Artworks can be washing machines too, doesn't make them money.
3pt14159 4y ago
> you're effectively acknowledging that cryptocurrency is money. No, I'm acknowledging that it is a dangerous technology that has cash in its name. I don't literally think it's a tornado nor do I literally think it is cash anymore than I think the bits of electricity that carry a bank transfer are cash. I'm trying to have an adult look at it without falling into the perfect abstractionism trap that so many of us software folk fall into. Politics and power is not built upon perfect abstractions or perfect mindshare. It's built on violence and realism at the worst of times and I don't want ideologues destroying peace and the planet.

hef19898 4y ago

Crypto is an asset you can use to move money around, gold, checks, valuables, art all can be used for that. Crypto is just way more easier to move, it doesn't make it money. Real estate is used to launder money, that doesn't turn buildings into money.

capableweb 4y ago
> Real estate is used to launder money, that doesn't turn buildings into money. Yet "real estate" is not on OFAC's sanctions list. It's almost like we should go after the people doing the money laundering, instead of things that could possibly be used for money laundering.
- hef19898 4y ago
  If a certain real estate firm was found to facilitate money laundering, it will be sanctioned and people arrested. If said firm would help North Korea to circumvent sanctions, consequences would be severe. Tornado Cash and some people behind it were targeted, nobody made Crypto illegal.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > Tornado Cash and some people behind it were targeted, nobody made Crypto illegal. That's incorrect. They literally made it illegal in the US to send/receive transactions to/from a Ethereum contract, which is just code. See https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/recent-actions/20220808 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... and search for 0x910cbd523d972eb0a6f4cae4618ad62622b39dbf (https://etherscan.io/address/0x910cbd523d972eb0a6f4cae4618ad62622b39dbf https://etherscan.io/address/0x910cbd523d972eb0a6f4cae4618ad...) as an example.
    - jakelazaroff 4y ago
      To bring it back to the article, this is kind of like saying "they literally made it illegal to send bullets from a gun, which is just a hunk of metal."

BbzzbB 4y ago

>you're effectively acknowledging that cryptocurrency is money While I've never claimed cryptos are not a kind of cash, it doesn't have to be. For TC to be a money (laundering scheme), it just has to have resale value. Artworks can be washing machines too, doesn't make them money.

3pt14159 4y ago

> you're effectively acknowledging that cryptocurrency is money. No, I'm acknowledging that it is a dangerous technology that has cash in its name. I don't literally think it's a tornado nor do I literally think it is cash anymore than I think the bits of electricity that carry a bank transfer are cash. I'm trying to have an adult look at it without falling into the perfect abstractionism trap that so many of us software folk fall into. Politics and power is not built upon perfect abstractions or perfect mindshare. It's built on violence and realism at the worst of times and I don't want ideologues destroying peace and the planet.