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> I believe in privacy and free expression. What I don’t believe is that we can make these things out of computers; they come from norms and law, designed and n

> I believe in privacy and free expression. What I don’t believe is that we can make these things out of computers; they come from norms and law, designed and negotiated by and between free people. When we put it in a computer, all we’re doing is asking for someone to formally circumvent it rather than find a legal loophole. In doing so, we transform a process into a permanent state and fundamentally freeze our ability to make progress. If norms and law were the only tools we had, nobody would have communications privacy. Every large government around the world is constantly battling against privacy. When the government turns against its people, technology can help. The only realistic solution for privacy in today's environment is to "put it in a computer" using encryption. Would you also argue that instead of adopting HTTPS, we should have written a letter to our congressman?

lottin 4y ago
If the government turns against its people, we have a bigger problem that will not be solved with some made-up currency or money laundering for the masses. Don't be a fool.
- TakeBlaster16 4y ago
  It already has turned against us. In the 1800s with the USPS, we had ultimate privacy - nobody could open physical mail without a warrant, under strict legal penalties. In modern times we have the third-party doctrine[1], where the moment bytes leave your network you have "no reasonable expectation of privacy". If you want privacy now, you can never give anyone any data or do business with any third party, including relying on a third party to route your network packets. Or you can take matters into your own hands, with encryption. If someone calls me a fool for using HTTPS and encrypted messaging, I'm fine with that. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine
  - lottin 4y ago
    Get a grip. The fact that you personally or somebody else doesn't agree with a government policy doesn't mean that the government has turned against its people.
    - TakeBlaster16 4y ago
      Describing it as a government policy is trivializing things a bit. You could also describe Japanese internment camps or cash-for-kids as a "government policy". Governments absolutely turn against their people. Regularly. If they get their way and privacy is eradicated, things will get far worse. Imagine if in the 1940s you could have written an SQL query to get a list of everyone who had ever done business with somebody who's Japanese. We'd be living in a very different world. But maybe you're fine with that. After all, nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right?

lottin 4y ago

If the government turns against its people, we have a bigger problem that will not be solved with some made-up currency or money laundering for the masses. Don't be a fool.

TakeBlaster16 4y ago
It already has turned against us. In the 1800s with the USPS, we had ultimate privacy - nobody could open physical mail without a warrant, under strict legal penalties. In modern times we have the third-party doctrine[1], where the moment bytes leave your network you have "no reasonable expectation of privacy". If you want privacy now, you can never give anyone any data or do business with any third party, including relying on a third party to route your network packets. Or you can take matters into your own hands, with encryption. If someone calls me a fool for using HTTPS and encrypted messaging, I'm fine with that. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine
- lottin 4y ago
  Get a grip. The fact that you personally or somebody else doesn't agree with a government policy doesn't mean that the government has turned against its people.
  - TakeBlaster16 4y ago
    Describing it as a government policy is trivializing things a bit. You could also describe Japanese internment camps or cash-for-kids as a "government policy". Governments absolutely turn against their people. Regularly. If they get their way and privacy is eradicated, things will get far worse. Imagine if in the 1940s you could have written an SQL query to get a list of everyone who had ever done business with somebody who's Japanese. We'd be living in a very different world. But maybe you're fine with that. After all, nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right?