4 ms·

It's absolutely insane to me that the OS that actually allows users to install third party app stores and third party apps had an antitrust decision against it

It's absolutely insane to me that the OS that actually allows users to install third party app stores and third party apps had an antitrust decision against it before Apple, who locks down there entire OS to users, did. It just seems like the EU here was more worried about businesses than users here. If users were the priority, they would have went after the ios app market. You can release an Android phone if you so desire right now, the problem seemed to stem from Google not letting you pick and choose which of the Google apps a manufacture could install. This seems clearly up to interpretation, if any manufacture could release an Android phone, then how is the OS what's abusing the Monopoly status here? It seems clear the real culprit is actually the App store, which Google required if a manufacturer included also needed to include a number of Google apps. If Google got punished so heavily for this, ios's total undeniable 100% monopoly on ios Apps should be a $50 billion fine. They've done all the same moves as Google, but even more locked down.

jmoak3 4y ago
As a longtime iOS user, I entirely agree! This is a whacko bananas thing to press without any hint of something similar for Apple yet. Dinging Google for making manufacturers carry Google Maps (or whatever) if they install the Google Play App store is like when we dinged Microsoft for bundling a browser, all while Apple still won't allow you to have another browser. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/01/web-developers-challenge-apple-to-allow-other-browser-engines-on-ios/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/01/web-developers-challenge-appl... I tell family and friends about the webkit issue and every single one pulls out their browser of choice and says "nuh-uh, see here's the chrome app. what do you mean it's still the same?" Imagine if Microsoft in the 90s started banning competitor software cause they may be "insecure" or "not private enough". Good grief, the only thing Google did wrong here was letting others manufacture Android phones. The lesson to take away from the EU here is to never show weakness or willingness to compromise, or let anyone else into your playpen. No way Apple gives even an inch after this. In my ideal world Google is dinged for this, and Apple gets the fattest fine known to man.
- noahtallen 4y ago
  There have been some hints: - https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/25/eu-provisionally-agrees-dma-law-apple-app-store/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/25/eu-provisionally-agrees... - https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-hit-with-eu-antitrust-charge-over-its-payment-technology-2022-05-02/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-hit-with-eu-antitru...
mattalex 4y ago
> It's absolutely insane to me that the OS that actually allows users to install third party app stores and third party apps had an antitrust decision against it before Apple, who locks down there entire OS to users, did. Just that this is not about the App Store, but an entirely different antitrust suit: This one is specifically about pressuring _device manufacturers_ and _mobile network operators_. It has nothing to do with the App Store policies, that is a different case. This one is specifically about: > The Commission in its 2018 decision said Google used Android to cement its dominance in general internet search via payments to large manufacturers and mobile network operators and restrictions.
pjmlp 4y ago
Except iOS doesn't have a market size that matters in Europe. Android is the Windows of mobile OSes. By the way that isn't how the law defines monopolies.
- deelowe 4y ago
  Is that relevant here? I think the issue at hand is how Google leverages the app store to exert control over smartphone companies. The comparison to Apple doesn't make sense. Apple is the only company selling phones running iOS.
- cmarschner 4y ago
  Wait, iOS has a solid 1/3 of the market in Europe. What am I missing? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    The other 2/3.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Competition law in Europe is absolutely not only about monopolies so I don’t see how the definition of one is relevant here.
- ApolloFortyNine 4y ago
  >By the way that isn't how the law defines monopolies. Monopolies are always about defining the market. Here they went with licensable OS market, purposely leaving out Apple entirely. >The Court agreed with the Commission's assessment that iPhone maker Apple (AAPL.O) was not in the same market and therefore could not be a competitive constraint against Android. Kind of reinforcing my point that the EU in this case was watching out for businesses, not users. Your average user when asked to name an Android competitor would likely name Apple.
  - teruakohatu 4y ago
chrisxcross 4y ago
This ruling is not about the users. It is about Google pressuring manufacturers. This is completely different case.

jmoak3 4y ago

As a longtime iOS user, I entirely agree! This is a whacko bananas thing to press without any hint of something similar for Apple yet. Dinging Google for making manufacturers carry Google Maps (or whatever) if they install the Google Play App store is like when we dinged Microsoft for bundling a browser, all while Apple still won't allow you to have another browser. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/01/web-developers-challenge-apple-to-allow-other-browser-engines-on-ios/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/01/web-developers-challenge-appl... I tell family and friends about the webkit issue and every single one pulls out their browser of choice and says "nuh-uh, see here's the chrome app. what do you mean it's still the same?" Imagine if Microsoft in the 90s started banning competitor software cause they may be "insecure" or "not private enough". Good grief, the only thing Google did wrong here was letting others manufacture Android phones. The lesson to take away from the EU here is to never show weakness or willingness to compromise, or let anyone else into your playpen. No way Apple gives even an inch after this. In my ideal world Google is dinged for this, and Apple gets the fattest fine known to man.

noahtallen 4y ago
There have been some hints: - https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/25/eu-provisionally-agrees-dma-law-apple-app-store/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/25/eu-provisionally-agrees... - https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-hit-with-eu-antitrust-charge-over-its-payment-technology-2022-05-02/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-hit-with-eu-antitru...

mattalex 4y ago

> It's absolutely insane to me that the OS that actually allows users to install third party app stores and third party apps had an antitrust decision against it before Apple, who locks down there entire OS to users, did. Just that this is not about the App Store, but an entirely different antitrust suit: This one is specifically about pressuring _device manufacturers_ and _mobile network operators_. It has nothing to do with the App Store policies, that is a different case. This one is specifically about: > The Commission in its 2018 decision said Google used Android to cement its dominance in general internet search via payments to large manufacturers and mobile network operators and restrictions.

pjmlp 4y ago

Except iOS doesn't have a market size that matters in Europe. Android is the Windows of mobile OSes. By the way that isn't how the law defines monopolies.

deelowe 4y ago
Is that relevant here? I think the issue at hand is how Google leverages the app store to exert control over smartphone companies. The comparison to Apple doesn't make sense. Apple is the only company selling phones running iOS.
cmarschner 4y ago
Wait, iOS has a solid 1/3 of the market in Europe. What am I missing? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe
- pjmlp 4y ago
  The other 2/3.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Competition law in Europe is absolutely not only about monopolies so I don’t see how the definition of one is relevant here.
ApolloFortyNine 4y ago
>By the way that isn't how the law defines monopolies. Monopolies are always about defining the market. Here they went with licensable OS market, purposely leaving out Apple entirely. >The Court agreed with the Commission's assessment that iPhone maker Apple (AAPL.O) was not in the same market and therefore could not be a competitive constraint against Android. Kind of reinforcing my point that the EU in this case was watching out for businesses, not users. Your average user when asked to name an Android competitor would likely name Apple.
- teruakohatu 4y ago

chrisxcross 4y ago

This ruling is not about the users. It is about Google pressuring manufacturers. This is completely different case.