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America's Self-Obsession Is Killing Its Democracy

17 points by graderjs 4y ago

mercy_dude 4y ago
Atlantic has sadly become the type of neoliberalism fanboy that even after decades of pushback from American public hasn’t got the message seemingly. America isn’t self obsessed, the elites running America in its current state in the form of kleptocracy using nation state apparatus such as CIA and FBI and the “free” media is self obsessed and do anything and everything to preserve its own interest at the expense of the mass. Be it taxpayers bailing them out in 2008 or maintaining ugly PACs undermining democracy, or maintaining status quo with inflow cheap labor and outflow of jobs, or fighting pointless wars and aiding coups on behalf of defense and oil industry interests. We don’t need lectures from Bush fanboys.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  What is your alternative? Is there a party that offers an improved situation?
  - mercy_dude 4y ago
    No unfortunately. Both parties are run by elites and busy screwing over people. But why do we have to think in terms of party line?
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  > with inflow cheap labor and outflow of jobs We could use a little inflow of cheap labor about now. It's one reason why our inflation rate is currently so high. We were able to export inflation ~30 years prior to about 2019 via wage arbitrage and immigration - but that started to end even prior to the pandemic. Repatriating jobs was always going to be inflationary. Add in the pandemic and restrictions on immigration and it makes it even worse. I'm not arguing whether or not it was a good idea to bring jobs back to the US, only that doing so was always going to be inflationary, at least for a time, and we're experiencing some of that pain now.
  - mercy_dude 4y ago
    That is the classic neocon argument. Because for gods sake wages can’t be rising and workers can have an upper hand. Why do you think Fed is so busy now trying to raise the rate while all these time they were busy buying bonds creating the perfect storm of bubble? Because finally flood the zone with cheap labor isn’t finally working. They were already busy with flooding the zone with liquidity propping up the elites with insane asset valuations.
justbored123 4y ago
incomingpain 4y ago
America's self obsession hasn't prevented decades of war on countries that didn't do anything. What are you saying? American in order to save it's democracy they need to focus more outside? More?
- justbored123 4y ago
- graderjs 4y ago
  Well the one's who are self-obsessed (Tony Stark, on Cap: "He's wrong, but he think's he's right: that makes him dangerous") can often be heavily involved in "helping" others so convinced they are of their own righteousness. But I think the article probably goes in a different direction to what we are saying (superficially? like a trope?) here. Let's read it! :P :) xx ;p
  - graderjs 4y ago
    Alright, I'm reading it. It's a sad type of "hit piece" of turning something against Trump. But I think, separating out the anti-Trump craziness there may be something good there. I shall read on! :P ;) xx ;p (edits from now on, too many comments) edits: 1. Alright it seems like a pathetic "anti-authoritarian" hit piece, where you can get (the two threats of) Trump and China with one stone. As in: Democracy is at risk; yes, but it's not what you think; it's authoritarianism; Trump was authoritarian; hey, look over there, so is China. So far the article is BS, but I'm hoping there is some insight. 2. “Democracies can’t depend on one of two major parties never holding power,” argues Brendan Nyhan, a government professor at Dartmouth College and a co-founder of Bright Line Watch, a group that monitors the erosion of American democracy. But that may be the necessary treatment for now, because Republican leaders “are defining a vision of a Trumpist GOP that could prove more durable than the man himself.” Alright, this is some hope. We need more than just lip service to a two-party state. With each pretending the other is the antiChrist. That's the system, manipulating the people, to keep the "system" in power, the diametrically opposed parties are simply tools of the prolongation of that power. An illusion of choice. But sadly, so far that's as close as the article gets to what I see as truth, but I don't think they even meant it that way. 3. Wow, so got to the end of the article, and it's utter BS. Apparently the Republican Party and Trump represent the "cancer of authoritarianism". Which is just BS democrat posturing. I mean, how ridiculous, in the name of democracy, calling the only other legitimate party choice, the antichrist...while pretending you are upholding democracy by demonizing the only other choice people have? Insanity. Oh well. Most people are so triggered by these discussions as to make clear thought impossible. I hoped this article would contain some useful critique of Western liberal democracies failings, yet is was just a "status quo" hit piece dressed up in sophisticated garb. So sad. Don't drink it or you'll choke on that disgusting swap-water koolaid. blargh.
mitchbob 4y ago
Archived: https://archive.ph/nfxbq https://archive.ph/nfxbq

17 points by graderjs 4y ago

Atlantic has sadly become the type of neoliberalism fanboy that even after decades of pushback from American public hasn’t got the message seemingly. America isn’t self obsessed, the elites running America in its current state in the form of kleptocracy using nation state apparatus such as CIA and FBI and the “free” media is self obsessed and do anything and everything to preserve its own interest at the expense of the mass. Be it taxpayers bailing them out in 2008 or maintaining ugly PACs undermining democracy, or maintaining status quo with inflow cheap labor and outflow of jobs, or fighting pointless wars and aiding coups on behalf of defense and oil industry interests. We don’t need lectures from Bush fanboys.

throwaway5959 4y ago
What is your alternative? Is there a party that offers an improved situation?
- mercy_dude 4y ago
  No unfortunately. Both parties are run by elites and busy screwing over people. But why do we have to think in terms of party line?
UncleOxidant 4y ago
> with inflow cheap labor and outflow of jobs We could use a little inflow of cheap labor about now. It's one reason why our inflation rate is currently so high. We were able to export inflation ~30 years prior to about 2019 via wage arbitrage and immigration - but that started to end even prior to the pandemic. Repatriating jobs was always going to be inflationary. Add in the pandemic and restrictions on immigration and it makes it even worse. I'm not arguing whether or not it was a good idea to bring jobs back to the US, only that doing so was always going to be inflationary, at least for a time, and we're experiencing some of that pain now.
- mercy_dude 4y ago
  That is the classic neocon argument. Because for gods sake wages can’t be rising and workers can have an upper hand. Why do you think Fed is so busy now trying to raise the rate while all these time they were busy buying bonds creating the perfect storm of bubble? Because finally flood the zone with cheap labor isn’t finally working. They were already busy with flooding the zone with liquidity propping up the elites with insane asset valuations.

justbored123 4y ago

incomingpain 4y ago

America's self obsession hasn't prevented decades of war on countries that didn't do anything. What are you saying? American in order to save it's democracy they need to focus more outside? More?

justbored123 4y ago
graderjs 4y ago
Well the one's who are self-obsessed (Tony Stark, on Cap: "He's wrong, but he think's he's right: that makes him dangerous") can often be heavily involved in "helping" others so convinced they are of their own righteousness. But I think the article probably goes in a different direction to what we are saying (superficially? like a trope?) here. Let's read it! :P :) xx ;p
- graderjs 4y ago
  Alright, I'm reading it. It's a sad type of "hit piece" of turning something against Trump. But I think, separating out the anti-Trump craziness there may be something good there. I shall read on! :P ;) xx ;p (edits from now on, too many comments) edits: 1. Alright it seems like a pathetic "anti-authoritarian" hit piece, where you can get (the two threats of) Trump and China with one stone. As in: Democracy is at risk; yes, but it's not what you think; it's authoritarianism; Trump was authoritarian; hey, look over there, so is China. So far the article is BS, but I'm hoping there is some insight. 2. “Democracies can’t depend on one of two major parties never holding power,” argues Brendan Nyhan, a government professor at Dartmouth College and a co-founder of Bright Line Watch, a group that monitors the erosion of American democracy. But that may be the necessary treatment for now, because Republican leaders “are defining a vision of a Trumpist GOP that could prove more durable than the man himself.” Alright, this is some hope. We need more than just lip service to a two-party state. With each pretending the other is the antiChrist. That's the system, manipulating the people, to keep the "system" in power, the diametrically opposed parties are simply tools of the prolongation of that power. An illusion of choice. But sadly, so far that's as close as the article gets to what I see as truth, but I don't think they even meant it that way. 3. Wow, so got to the end of the article, and it's utter BS. Apparently the Republican Party and Trump represent the "cancer of authoritarianism". Which is just BS democrat posturing. I mean, how ridiculous, in the name of democracy, calling the only other legitimate party choice, the antichrist...while pretending you are upholding democracy by demonizing the only other choice people have? Insanity. Oh well. Most people are so triggered by these discussions as to make clear thought impossible. I hoped this article would contain some useful critique of Western liberal democracies failings, yet is was just a "status quo" hit piece dressed up in sophisticated garb. So sad. Don't drink it or you'll choke on that disgusting swap-water koolaid. blargh.

mitchbob 4y ago

Archived: https://archive.ph/nfxbq https://archive.ph/nfxbq