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It took Google several years to notice tens of millions in fraudulent invoices from one guy: https://www.npr.org/2019/03/25/706715377/man-pleads-guilty-to-phis

by tyingq 4y ago

It took Google several years to notice tens of millions in fraudulent invoices from one guy: https://www.npr.org/2019/03/25/706715377/man-pleads-guilty-to-phishing-scheme-that-fleeced-facebook-google-of-100-million https://www.npr.org/2019/03/25/706715377/man-pleads-guilty-t... If this had been kept quiet, I think the odds are high it would have never been noticed. I don't think Google has any of their own internal special sauce on their invoicing and payment. They are just as bad at it as everyone else.

Rapzid 4y ago
I wonder if there is a way to make it legal. Like turn it in as found and after a period if Google doesn't claim it.. At a minimum I would consult with a lawyer.
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  In Germany it would be legal to claim it after 4 years.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > At a minimum I would consult with a lawyer Which, if it turns out you cannot legally keep the money somehow, you just paid a ton of money for someone to basically tell you that you cannot have the money, so now you're paying money because Google sent you money.
  - Rapzid 4y ago
    Well if you are already having trouble getting Google to pay attention to you and take back the money it might be cheaper to consult a lawyer than wasting more of your own time on the issue. And then if you are considering the possibility of keeping it somehow I don't think you could afford to NOT consult a lawyer. Either way it does seem like Google is going to end up costing you time/money :|
  - tyingq 4y ago
    Maybe some lawyer would take it on a percentage contingency?
- friendzis 4y ago
  Law of course always depend on minutiae of jurisdictions involved, but generally procedure for "found" stuff is roughly "give it police and you may be eligible for bounty"
- retrac 4y ago
  In common law countries, there is an extensive body of law about lost, mislaid, and abandoned property and how to deal with them. Lost, mislaid and abandoned are technically distinct classifications. Lost is a wallet on the side of the road. Mislaid is a wallet left on the counter at a store. Abandoned is something that was intentionally thrown away. Abandoned property is basically finders keepers. Mislaid property should be left and the owner contacted, and the proprietor where it was left notified to help effect that. Lost property where the owner is known must also be returned. Lost or mislaid property might eventually be claimed when the return is impossible, for example, one cannot identify or contact owner after a long period, including perhaps posting public notices. At that point, it becomes considered abandoned. Specifics vary a bit by jurisdiction, but I don't see it likely ever applying when you know who it came from and it's all on record. No reasonable person abandons cash in the wrong account. It is clearly mislaid. Maybe if they don't respond despite repeated formal contacts via legal channels. Obviously something to consult with a lawyer about over these kind of stakes...
  - InCityDreams 4y ago
    >Lost, mislaid and abandoned are technically distinct classifications. Love that missing comma... Lost, mislaid, and abandoned are *three technically distinct classifications.
    - btkthrowaway1 4y ago
      the comma and adding "three" make this sentence worse imo. Don't care what the "proper" grammar rules say
    - mod 4y ago
      In context, with the explanatory sentences following, it's pretty much impossible to misread the idea.
    - hurflmurfl 4y ago
      I think that reading this sentence as "lost" and "mislaid and abandoned" is not likely. I believe most people would not use comma when they're enumerating 2 categories. E.g. "banana and apple are fruits" vs "banana, apple are fruits". Serial comma isn't really required [in all dialects], and its use is mostly mandated where it resolves some ambiguity.
mabbo 4y ago
The trouble is when the government starts asking where you got this money from.
- tyingq 4y ago
  From Google. Here's my EIN, and the Quickbooks entry where I paid my self-employment and other taxes for it.
SoylentYellow 4y ago
Evaldas Rimasauskas was sentenced to 5 years in Federal prison, two years supervised release, and had to forfeit ~$75M out of the $120M he stole. I don't know what happened to the other $45M, but if he somehow kept it, that doesn't seem like much of a deterrent. I bet I could find millions of people willing to go to a minimum security Federal prison for $9M a year for a few years. I know I would.
- mod 4y ago
  I love these thought experiments. I would very likely go for one year, but I think it's highly unlikely I'd go for two. If I had to go for 5 years to get 45M, I think I'd pass. I definitely am not going to out-earn that or anything, I just value my time way, way too much, and value money way too little. 9M does a lot for my people and me, and after that I think I would just be helping out more people. They can suffer in their own prison! If I could risk 5 years in prison for $120M, with a minimum guaranteed return of 45M and a maximum of 2-3 years? Yeah, I'd go for that, even if the chance to succeed without prison was pretty small, say 20%. The chance to escape punishment is a big motivator, and don't all of us think we're clever enough to do it? Anyway, as you say, I'm the outlier. Almost everyone, even in the richest nation on earth, would accept that level of risk without a whole lot of thought.
- jahnu 4y ago
  Reminds me a bit of this true story https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/102/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/102/

by tyingq 4y ago

Rapzid 4y ago

I wonder if there is a way to make it legal. Like turn it in as found and after a period if Google doesn't claim it.. At a minimum I would consult with a lawyer.

Gasp0de 4y ago
In Germany it would be legal to claim it after 4 years.
capableweb 4y ago
> At a minimum I would consult with a lawyer Which, if it turns out you cannot legally keep the money somehow, you just paid a ton of money for someone to basically tell you that you cannot have the money, so now you're paying money because Google sent you money.
- Rapzid 4y ago
  Well if you are already having trouble getting Google to pay attention to you and take back the money it might be cheaper to consult a lawyer than wasting more of your own time on the issue. And then if you are considering the possibility of keeping it somehow I don't think you could afford to NOT consult a lawyer. Either way it does seem like Google is going to end up costing you time/money :|
- tyingq 4y ago
  Maybe some lawyer would take it on a percentage contingency?
friendzis 4y ago
Law of course always depend on minutiae of jurisdictions involved, but generally procedure for "found" stuff is roughly "give it police and you may be eligible for bounty"
retrac 4y ago
In common law countries, there is an extensive body of law about lost, mislaid, and abandoned property and how to deal with them. Lost, mislaid and abandoned are technically distinct classifications. Lost is a wallet on the side of the road. Mislaid is a wallet left on the counter at a store. Abandoned is something that was intentionally thrown away. Abandoned property is basically finders keepers. Mislaid property should be left and the owner contacted, and the proprietor where it was left notified to help effect that. Lost property where the owner is known must also be returned. Lost or mislaid property might eventually be claimed when the return is impossible, for example, one cannot identify or contact owner after a long period, including perhaps posting public notices. At that point, it becomes considered abandoned. Specifics vary a bit by jurisdiction, but I don't see it likely ever applying when you know who it came from and it's all on record. No reasonable person abandons cash in the wrong account. It is clearly mislaid. Maybe if they don't respond despite repeated formal contacts via legal channels. Obviously something to consult with a lawyer about over these kind of stakes...
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  >Lost, mislaid and abandoned are technically distinct classifications. Love that missing comma... Lost, mislaid, and abandoned are *three technically distinct classifications.
  - btkthrowaway1 4y ago
    the comma and adding "three" make this sentence worse imo. Don't care what the "proper" grammar rules say
  - mod 4y ago
    In context, with the explanatory sentences following, it's pretty much impossible to misread the idea.
  - hurflmurfl 4y ago
    I think that reading this sentence as "lost" and "mislaid and abandoned" is not likely. I believe most people would not use comma when they're enumerating 2 categories. E.g. "banana and apple are fruits" vs "banana, apple are fruits". Serial comma isn't really required [in all dialects], and its use is mostly mandated where it resolves some ambiguity.

mabbo 4y ago

The trouble is when the government starts asking where you got this money from.

tyingq 4y ago
From Google. Here's my EIN, and the Quickbooks entry where I paid my self-employment and other taxes for it.

SoylentYellow 4y ago

Evaldas Rimasauskas was sentenced to 5 years in Federal prison, two years supervised release, and had to forfeit ~$75M out of the $120M he stole. I don't know what happened to the other $45M, but if he somehow kept it, that doesn't seem like much of a deterrent. I bet I could find millions of people willing to go to a minimum security Federal prison for $9M a year for a few years. I know I would.

mod 4y ago
I love these thought experiments. I would very likely go for one year, but I think it's highly unlikely I'd go for two. If I had to go for 5 years to get 45M, I think I'd pass. I definitely am not going to out-earn that or anything, I just value my time way, way too much, and value money way too little. 9M does a lot for my people and me, and after that I think I would just be helping out more people. They can suffer in their own prison! If I could risk 5 years in prison for $120M, with a minimum guaranteed return of 45M and a maximum of 2-3 years? Yeah, I'd go for that, even if the chance to succeed without prison was pretty small, say 20%. The chance to escape punishment is a big motivator, and don't all of us think we're clever enough to do it? Anyway, as you say, I'm the outlier. Almost everyone, even in the richest nation on earth, would accept that level of risk without a whole lot of thought.
jahnu 4y ago
Reminds me a bit of this true story https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/102/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/102/