4 ms·

I'm now imagining some poor child's dumbfounded look as a HackerNews parent explains how to ride a bike by breaking down countersteering. lmaoo

HPsquared 4y ago
"First, let's start with some control theory..."
ekzy 4y ago
From the Wikipedia article: > While this appears to be a complex sequence of motions, it is performed by every child who rides a bicycle. The entire sequence goes largely unnoticed by most riders, which is why some assert that they do not do it.
Enginerrrd 4y ago
It's worse than that even... Historically, (before balance bikes) a lot of kids would progress from having training wheels all the way down, to two-wheeled dynamics. The problem is, having training wheels all-the-way-down means you have a tricycle, which doesn't have countersteering dynamics. So as soon as you pull the wheels up, they have to totally forget what they've learned.
- amalcon 4y ago
  I don't think I've ever heard of training wheels at literal ground level when the bike is upright -- what would even be the point? It's basically a tricycle, like you say. When I've seen them, they've been at least an inch or two above, which (coupled with telling the child that the game is to prevent them touching the ground) would seem to mitigate this problem while still effectively preventing falls.
- synu 4y ago
  Here in the Netherlands kids learn to ride a bike on little two wheeled wooden bikes, that they start to “glide” on. It’s a nice system that gets them right into learning how a real bike behaves.
  - gwd 4y ago
    Those are the "balance bikes" GP are referring to; definitely a much better system than training wheels. (One of my 2-year-old's favorite activities ATM is riding his balance bike at a skate park.) I've heard people say that even when teaching adults to ride a bike, it's best to have them just push themselves by their feet (as you would on a balance bike) until they learn how the bike moves, then tell them to use the pedals whenever they feel ready.
    - deltarholamda 4y ago
      I did this for my kids, only I took the pedals off the bike so they could get full use of their legs. A balance bike without having to buy a separate bike.
Lio 4y ago
Haha, you something like counter steering just being a monoid in the category of endofunctors? :P Hopefully after kids "just learn" how to ride, watching a video of someone counter steering in slow motion and then trying to visualise themselves doing it enough to get it. It is worth thinking about and then deliberately practicing though as nailing it can really help you reduce turning circle needed on both a motorbike and bicycle in general.
- kevstev 4y ago
  I actually really struggled with this when taking a class learning to ride a motorcycle. The instructor kept trying to instill this over complicated explanation and mnemonics like "go left look left push left lean left" and IMHO it required way too much mental processing to just say "turn like a bicycle" Eventually after a few go rounds I realized he was just trying to explain that process and I just discarded all of the explanations and just did what came naturally (aside from the look part- that's actually immensely powerful and useful- just look where you want to go and avoid "target fixation"). Some things, just doing them and getting a natural feel is 100x if not more, useful than tons of theory and explanations.

HPsquared 4y ago

"First, let's start with some control theory..."

ekzy 4y ago

From the Wikipedia article: > While this appears to be a complex sequence of motions, it is performed by every child who rides a bicycle. The entire sequence goes largely unnoticed by most riders, which is why some assert that they do not do it.

Enginerrrd 4y ago

It's worse than that even... Historically, (before balance bikes) a lot of kids would progress from having training wheels all the way down, to two-wheeled dynamics. The problem is, having training wheels all-the-way-down means you have a tricycle, which doesn't have countersteering dynamics. So as soon as you pull the wheels up, they have to totally forget what they've learned.

amalcon 4y ago
I don't think I've ever heard of training wheels at literal ground level when the bike is upright -- what would even be the point? It's basically a tricycle, like you say. When I've seen them, they've been at least an inch or two above, which (coupled with telling the child that the game is to prevent them touching the ground) would seem to mitigate this problem while still effectively preventing falls.
synu 4y ago
Here in the Netherlands kids learn to ride a bike on little two wheeled wooden bikes, that they start to “glide” on. It’s a nice system that gets them right into learning how a real bike behaves.
- gwd 4y ago
  Those are the "balance bikes" GP are referring to; definitely a much better system than training wheels. (One of my 2-year-old's favorite activities ATM is riding his balance bike at a skate park.) I've heard people say that even when teaching adults to ride a bike, it's best to have them just push themselves by their feet (as you would on a balance bike) until they learn how the bike moves, then tell them to use the pedals whenever they feel ready.
  - deltarholamda 4y ago
    I did this for my kids, only I took the pedals off the bike so they could get full use of their legs. A balance bike without having to buy a separate bike.

Lio 4y ago

Haha, you something like counter steering just being a monoid in the category of endofunctors? :P Hopefully after kids "just learn" how to ride, watching a video of someone counter steering in slow motion and then trying to visualise themselves doing it enough to get it. It is worth thinking about and then deliberately practicing though as nailing it can really help you reduce turning circle needed on both a motorbike and bicycle in general.

kevstev 4y ago
I actually really struggled with this when taking a class learning to ride a motorcycle. The instructor kept trying to instill this over complicated explanation and mnemonics like "go left look left push left lean left" and IMHO it required way too much mental processing to just say "turn like a bicycle" Eventually after a few go rounds I realized he was just trying to explain that process and I just discarded all of the explanations and just did what came naturally (aside from the look part- that's actually immensely powerful and useful- just look where you want to go and avoid "target fixation"). Some things, just doing them and getting a natural feel is 100x if not more, useful than tons of theory and explanations.