4 ms·

This Veritasium video touches upon the same phenomenon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNmUNHSBac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNmUNHSBac

Asooka 4y ago
Sadly it's wrong. My gripe with it is that it presents countersteering as necessary, while it's just a technique to more quickly initiate a turn. Basically by steering right while leaning left, then snapping the handlebars to the left, you can change your centre of gravity relative to the bike's faster than you can just by leaning left. When leaning your body left you also naturally push the handle bars right which produces a countersteer as well even if you didn't mean to. However, you can easily observe a bicycle steering without first initiating a countersteer. The easiest is if you just push it and let it coast by itself. It will naturally start leaning one way and continue turning that way until it falls on the ground without any countersteering. Another way is, if its geometry permits, to ride it without holding on to the handlebars - you can see you're steering left and right by shifting your weight on only the seat without any countersteering. Or you can consciously avoid doing a countersteer and make turns that way - noticeably less quickly than if you do countersteer, but quite possible. Another proof would be the fact that monowheels work and can be steered. You cannot countersteer a monowheel, yet it steers just fine. Look also at Destin's backwards bicycle experiment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 . I really don't think you can countersteer that thing anyway, yet it steers just fine. I think if Veritasium had given people more time (days? weeks?) to adjust to the bike, they would learn to make turns without countersteering. I know it took me a while to learn to do it when I first heard about countersteering and thought to experiment. Finally, I really hate the word "countersteering". It is very misleading and logically impossible. Obviously you can't have to turn left before turning right, because then you have to first turn right in order to turn left in order to turn right, but you have to first turn left in order to turn right in order to turn left in order to turn right... ad nauseam. A much better term would be "counterjerk" - you're jerking the bike to the right so that you can more quickly shift your centre of gravity left and make a sharper left turn.
- balfirevic 4y ago
  > Look also at Destin's backwards bicycle experiment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 . I really don't think you can countersteer that thing anyway, yet it steers just fine. Why wouldn't you be able to countersteer it as any other bike (except in this case by using the opposite handlebar motion compared to a regular bike)?
donatj 4y ago
Came here to cite this video. It’s wonderfully done. I think I knew it intrinsically but had never thought about it until this video came out.
- Lio 4y ago
  Yes totally agree. One of the examples given of leaning a balanced broom is really intuitive.
ho_schi 4y ago
And also Sheldon Brown: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html The writings of Sheldon Brown are somewhat a Wiki for cyclists teaching maintenance and riding a bicycle. I've learned riding a bicycle as child but the theory and maintenance guides are useful to know. If you are German you may also appreciate Wikipedalia: https://wikipedalia.com https://wikipedalia.com
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  FYI Sheldon Brown passed many, many years ago and the site has gone downhill since. The current "editor" has been replacing and adding content but has little to none of the practical knowledge Brown had from working in a bike shop for decades. A lot of content is now merely the new editor's opinions, quite a bit of it is bullshit, and sadly people treat it as authoritative because Brown's name is so strongly associated with it.
  - Chris2048 4y ago
    Who is the new editor? John Allen?
- freetime2 4y ago
  > Skilled cyclists use the front brake alone probably 95% of the time I am skeptical about this claim. Here’s a recent video by a former pro on the subject of braking, for example, and he is squeezing on both brakes at the same time in most of the shots. [1] He does say that the front brake can be squeezed a lot harder, though, and is source of most of your braking power. Even in the places where Brown says you should use the rear/both brakes comprise much more than 5% of my total brake usage: bumpy roads, slippery roads, long descents, breaking during a turn, etc. But I’ll also use both breaks to come to a stop pretty much any time I’m coming up to a traffic light or other non-emergency stop. [1] https://youtu.be/wX4tFn4RzrU https://youtu.be/wX4tFn4RzrU
  - heavenlyblue 4y ago
    > I am skeptical about this claim. Here’s a recent video by a former pro on the subject of braking, for example, and he is squeezing on both brakes at the same time in most of the shots. [1] He does say that the front brake can be squeezed a lot harder, though, and is source of most of your braking power. Note that he's stopping with both brakes and also moves his hips behind the seat, which makes tumble-forwards situation less likely. If you have enough strength you can go so low in that position that you will also slide on the front wheel as well on the back wheel.

Asooka 4y ago

Sadly it's wrong. My gripe with it is that it presents countersteering as necessary, while it's just a technique to more quickly initiate a turn. Basically by steering right while leaning left, then snapping the handlebars to the left, you can change your centre of gravity relative to the bike's faster than you can just by leaning left. When leaning your body left you also naturally push the handle bars right which produces a countersteer as well even if you didn't mean to. However, you can easily observe a bicycle steering without first initiating a countersteer. The easiest is if you just push it and let it coast by itself. It will naturally start leaning one way and continue turning that way until it falls on the ground without any countersteering. Another way is, if its geometry permits, to ride it without holding on to the handlebars - you can see you're steering left and right by shifting your weight on only the seat without any countersteering. Or you can consciously avoid doing a countersteer and make turns that way - noticeably less quickly than if you do countersteer, but quite possible. Another proof would be the fact that monowheels work and can be steered. You cannot countersteer a monowheel, yet it steers just fine. Look also at Destin's backwards bicycle experiment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 . I really don't think you can countersteer that thing anyway, yet it steers just fine. I think if Veritasium had given people more time (days? weeks?) to adjust to the bike, they would learn to make turns without countersteering. I know it took me a while to learn to do it when I first heard about countersteering and thought to experiment. Finally, I really hate the word "countersteering". It is very misleading and logically impossible. Obviously you can't have to turn left before turning right, because then you have to first turn right in order to turn left in order to turn right, but you have to first turn left in order to turn right in order to turn left in order to turn right... ad nauseam. A much better term would be "counterjerk" - you're jerking the bike to the right so that you can more quickly shift your centre of gravity left and make a sharper left turn.

balfirevic 4y ago
> Look also at Destin's backwards bicycle experiment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 . I really don't think you can countersteer that thing anyway, yet it steers just fine. Why wouldn't you be able to countersteer it as any other bike (except in this case by using the opposite handlebar motion compared to a regular bike)?

donatj 4y ago

Came here to cite this video. It’s wonderfully done. I think I knew it intrinsically but had never thought about it until this video came out.

Lio 4y ago
Yes totally agree. One of the examples given of leaning a balanced broom is really intuitive.

ho_schi 4y ago

And also Sheldon Brown: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html The writings of Sheldon Brown are somewhat a Wiki for cyclists teaching maintenance and riding a bicycle. I've learned riding a bicycle as child but the theory and maintenance guides are useful to know. If you are German you may also appreciate Wikipedalia: https://wikipedalia.com https://wikipedalia.com

KennyBlanken 4y ago
FYI Sheldon Brown passed many, many years ago and the site has gone downhill since. The current "editor" has been replacing and adding content but has little to none of the practical knowledge Brown had from working in a bike shop for decades. A lot of content is now merely the new editor's opinions, quite a bit of it is bullshit, and sadly people treat it as authoritative because Brown's name is so strongly associated with it.
- Chris2048 4y ago
  Who is the new editor? John Allen?
freetime2 4y ago
> Skilled cyclists use the front brake alone probably 95% of the time I am skeptical about this claim. Here’s a recent video by a former pro on the subject of braking, for example, and he is squeezing on both brakes at the same time in most of the shots. [1] He does say that the front brake can be squeezed a lot harder, though, and is source of most of your braking power. Even in the places where Brown says you should use the rear/both brakes comprise much more than 5% of my total brake usage: bumpy roads, slippery roads, long descents, breaking during a turn, etc. But I’ll also use both breaks to come to a stop pretty much any time I’m coming up to a traffic light or other non-emergency stop. [1] https://youtu.be/wX4tFn4RzrU https://youtu.be/wX4tFn4RzrU
- heavenlyblue 4y ago
  > I am skeptical about this claim. Here’s a recent video by a former pro on the subject of braking, for example, and he is squeezing on both brakes at the same time in most of the shots. [1] He does say that the front brake can be squeezed a lot harder, though, and is source of most of your braking power. Note that he's stopping with both brakes and also moves his hips behind the seat, which makes tumble-forwards situation less likely. If you have enough strength you can go so low in that position that you will also slide on the front wheel as well on the back wheel.