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The worst thing for Twitter isn't the abysmal security, it's the lies about the security issues. They promised the DOJ+FTC that they fix privacy issues which th

The worst thing for Twitter isn't the abysmal security, it's the lies about the security issues. They promised the DOJ+FTC that they fix privacy issues which they instead ignored and left unguarded and unlogged. That and letting suspected government-employees from various countries have nearly-unrestricted dev access. It's also going to destroy Agrawal and Dorsey. Dorsey was apparently having a mental breakdown and Agrawal seems dishonest and vindictive. Musk unethical? For playing hardball in negotiations? It was pretty obvious that Twitter was built out of sand and had a financial motivation to be lying about the efficacy of their ads (and thus validity of "eyeballs").

Maursault 4y ago
> Musk unethical? For playing hardball in negotiations? No. The ethical question relates to whether he was acting in good faith in the first place, and then again for breaking his word, which if the first part is true and he wasn't ever acting in good faith, then his stated intentions were never honest. But it's tough to say whether he was acting in good faith or not because he was so enthusiastic about the deal for months. But it's also hard to believe he wasn't already aware of his final grievances long before he announced his intention to buy. He made it seem like a whim, but is it really likely he is foolish enough to subject himself and an entire company and all the employees and shareholders to his fickle whims? If he wanted to hurt Twitter, for whatever his reasons may be, he should have done everything he did exactly the way he did it. Because regardless of whether he was acting in good faith, he took Twitter for a ride. I have heard of narcissists doing similar destruction to their victims, but I have never seen such a long and complicated game to cause pain except in novels or films. It is almost like he was exacting revenge, but revenge for what? Well, maybe nothing, which is textbook toxic narcissism, the absence of empathy, caring about nothing but one's own personal interests, which could be whims. It's late, I'm babbling.
- alsetmusic 4y ago
  Fwiw, it’s not much fun when a thread is bombarded with only a small number of users repeatedly replying to a wide number of users. At some point, we understand your views. Apologies, this is not meant as a personal attack.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  The price he quoted was for how Twitter billed itself - # of users, in compliance with the FTC, etc. As it becomes clear that they aren't all that their value naturally goes down. It would be wrong if Musk tried to get out of the purchase simply because the market has moved since his offer but that's not what happened. This is Twitter's malfeasance, they reported untrue things (and failed to report other true thing) to the SEC and therefore to stockholders. What ride, except fact-checking their statements, did he take them on? And to be fair, didn't they put themselves on that ride in the first place?
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    Well, no, because there's still no evidence that Twitter has lied in any of its filings, and because Musk intentionally waived due diligence which is the traditional way for a purchasing company to verify the actual state of the company it is buying. If, and only if, it turns out that Mudge's claims cause FTC action that would be severe enough to be defined as a material adverse effect, Musk may have some grounds to back out or reduce the price. But that's not yet clear. Remember, Twitter didn't want to be purchased. This was a hostile takeover, achieved by Musk going to Twitter's shareholders with an offer attractive enough that they were not going to refuse, forcing the board into accepting the offer. He then signed a binding offer and in his haste to force the deal waived due diligence.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      There is no proof, sure. The whistleblower's report is fairly compelling evidence. Twitter is its shareholders, not its managers. I imagine it's the lawsuits that this will spawn which will justify backing out or significantly reducing the price. Users whose data was not properly kept, users whose governments (and maybe others) got to spy on them, ad buyers who were promised a certain number and class of viewers, shareholders upset about these things, etc.
      - _djo_ 4y ago
        The bar required by the courts to justify backing out from or substantially altering a binding offer is quite rightly a high one, and the possibility of lawsuits alone will probably not be sufficient. There's no indication that ad buyers were misled, because neither Musk nor Mudge have shown any evidence that Twitter's mDAU claim or method in its FTC filings was either falsely stated or intentionally wrong.

Maursault 4y ago

> Musk unethical? For playing hardball in negotiations? No. The ethical question relates to whether he was acting in good faith in the first place, and then again for breaking his word, which if the first part is true and he wasn't ever acting in good faith, then his stated intentions were never honest. But it's tough to say whether he was acting in good faith or not because he was so enthusiastic about the deal for months. But it's also hard to believe he wasn't already aware of his final grievances long before he announced his intention to buy. He made it seem like a whim, but is it really likely he is foolish enough to subject himself and an entire company and all the employees and shareholders to his fickle whims? If he wanted to hurt Twitter, for whatever his reasons may be, he should have done everything he did exactly the way he did it. Because regardless of whether he was acting in good faith, he took Twitter for a ride. I have heard of narcissists doing similar destruction to their victims, but I have never seen such a long and complicated game to cause pain except in novels or films. It is almost like he was exacting revenge, but revenge for what? Well, maybe nothing, which is textbook toxic narcissism, the absence of empathy, caring about nothing but one's own personal interests, which could be whims. It's late, I'm babbling.

alsetmusic 4y ago
Fwiw, it’s not much fun when a thread is bombarded with only a small number of users repeatedly replying to a wide number of users. At some point, we understand your views. Apologies, this is not meant as a personal attack.
LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
The price he quoted was for how Twitter billed itself - # of users, in compliance with the FTC, etc. As it becomes clear that they aren't all that their value naturally goes down. It would be wrong if Musk tried to get out of the purchase simply because the market has moved since his offer but that's not what happened. This is Twitter's malfeasance, they reported untrue things (and failed to report other true thing) to the SEC and therefore to stockholders. What ride, except fact-checking their statements, did he take them on? And to be fair, didn't they put themselves on that ride in the first place?
- _djo_ 4y ago
  Well, no, because there's still no evidence that Twitter has lied in any of its filings, and because Musk intentionally waived due diligence which is the traditional way for a purchasing company to verify the actual state of the company it is buying. If, and only if, it turns out that Mudge's claims cause FTC action that would be severe enough to be defined as a material adverse effect, Musk may have some grounds to back out or reduce the price. But that's not yet clear. Remember, Twitter didn't want to be purchased. This was a hostile takeover, achieved by Musk going to Twitter's shareholders with an offer attractive enough that they were not going to refuse, forcing the board into accepting the offer. He then signed a binding offer and in his haste to force the deal waived due diligence.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    There is no proof, sure. The whistleblower's report is fairly compelling evidence. Twitter is its shareholders, not its managers. I imagine it's the lawsuits that this will spawn which will justify backing out or significantly reducing the price. Users whose data was not properly kept, users whose governments (and maybe others) got to spy on them, ad buyers who were promised a certain number and class of viewers, shareholders upset about these things, etc.
    - _djo_ 4y ago
      The bar required by the courts to justify backing out from or substantially altering a binding offer is quite rightly a high one, and the possibility of lawsuits alone will probably not be sufficient. There's no indication that ad buyers were misled, because neither Musk nor Mudge have shown any evidence that Twitter's mDAU claim or method in its FTC filings was either falsely stated or intentionally wrong.