5 ms·

I'm so glad I was pushing 30 before I really became aware of this startup scene. The general impression that comes off, to me at least, is work hard, stop moani

I'm so glad I was pushing 30 before I really became aware of this startup scene. The general impression that comes off, to me at least, is work hard, stop moaning, accept pennies and one day you'll be rich - assuming that unlikely outcome happens and we don't use of the thousand ways possible to screw you out of any riches. To me at least, and as an outsider, I'd say things like this may hold up for founders, but as a non-founder you better be young and have very little in the way of commitments. Get the experience and use what you've learned to found something yourself. As a caveat, I am obviously not well in on the startup scene, but from what I've seen & heard over the years, there's very little to tempt me as an employee.

dextorious 15y ago
"""I'm so glad I was pushing 30 before I really became aware of this startup scene. The general impression that comes off, to me at least, is work hard, stop moaning, accept pennies and one day you'll be rich - assuming that unlikely outcome happens and we don't use of the thousand ways possible to screw you out of any riches.""" Startups are tax for people who are good at math, but don't bother checking their odds.
- shadowfiend 15y ago
  That's under the terribly flawed assumption that economic outcome is the only thing that matters. There are many other considerations that make a startup appealing (culture, for example).
  - ahoyhere 15y ago
    That's under the terribly flawed assumption that "culture" can only be had at a "startup."
    - shadowfiend 15y ago
      Hardly. I said there are other considerations. There is no statement therein indicating that culture can only be had at a startup. A culture exists at every company, and the culture at a particular startup may simply appeal to someone more than that of a given corporation that offers them a job. This would be one consideration, in addition to compensation, in whether to take a job there or not. I also merely offered culture as one example, not as the only additional consideration.
- smilliken 15y ago
  Also consider that successful outcomes aren't distributed evenly; if you're exceptionally talented and work at an exceptionally good company, then it's not about odds, it's about execution. It's only gambling in the way a professional poker player gambles.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    Tons of "exceptionally talented" programmers got their respective startups nowhere. And the "exceptionally good company" -> success, borders on tautology, because how else do you measure an exceptionally good company besides success? """It's only gambling in the way a professional poker player gambles""" Yeah, you influence your fate and all. But poker is even less random than startup success --at least randomness there is constrained, will on a startup you have tons of sources of randomness: The startup founders, the employees, the economy in general, the society in general (fads, etc), investors, the client pool, you name it...
itmag 15y ago
I'm in my early 20s. Startups seem to be the only way out of 40 years of mediocrity in TPS-land for me, so I don't really think I have much of a choice. It's startups or nothing for me. Or maybe I am being myopic? Are there more options to be had in life than mediocrity/wageslavery vs glory/startups?
- uptown 15y ago
  "Are there more options to be had in life than mediocrity/wageslavery vs glory/startups?" Sure ... freelance. But depending on how you structure your work, you may end up with a similar work-load as a startup, or failure dropping you back into TPS-land.
  - itmag 15y ago
    Yeah I've considered freelancing+frugality as a viable alternative. My goal being to minimize the amount of "work" I have to do to survive, so that I can focus on getting interesting stuff done. I just consider it such a damn waste to sit in an office all day and basically do jack shit. It's not even that I dislike the work all that much, it's just... all those wasted hours. All down the drain. </whine>
- neilk 15y ago
  You are believing exactly what investors and VCs want you to believe. You aren't escaping wage slavery, you are just substituting a different slavemaster. Wake up. There are billions of people on this planet. Do you think that the ones who aren't in Silicon Valley startups are all miserable? Their lives aren't worth living? Ok, but more specifically. Let's say you want to lead a creative existence, working with technology, and you love the SF scene so much you just have to live here. You don't need to be in a startup for that. As they tell you to be frugal with a startup, be frugal with you life and all sorts of possibilities open up. I know a number of people living in "hacker homes" where they drift in between working on startups, technology jobs, and then working on projects that just interest them. Sometimes they'll take an entire year off work to do something with no monetary gain, like a Burning Man or an open source project. You might have to live in an less desirable area with a lot of housemates, but once your rent is sub-$1000 and you cook most of your own food, you can live for an entire year once you've pulled off a couple of consulting gigs. You're young, and I presume you don't have a spouse or kids, so this option is very possible for you.

dextorious 15y ago

"""I'm so glad I was pushing 30 before I really became aware of this startup scene. The general impression that comes off, to me at least, is work hard, stop moaning, accept pennies and one day you'll be rich - assuming that unlikely outcome happens and we don't use of the thousand ways possible to screw you out of any riches.""" Startups are tax for people who are good at math, but don't bother checking their odds.

shadowfiend 15y ago
That's under the terribly flawed assumption that economic outcome is the only thing that matters. There are many other considerations that make a startup appealing (culture, for example).
- ahoyhere 15y ago
  That's under the terribly flawed assumption that "culture" can only be had at a "startup."
  - shadowfiend 15y ago
    Hardly. I said there are other considerations. There is no statement therein indicating that culture can only be had at a startup. A culture exists at every company, and the culture at a particular startup may simply appeal to someone more than that of a given corporation that offers them a job. This would be one consideration, in addition to compensation, in whether to take a job there or not. I also merely offered culture as one example, not as the only additional consideration.
smilliken 15y ago
Also consider that successful outcomes aren't distributed evenly; if you're exceptionally talented and work at an exceptionally good company, then it's not about odds, it's about execution. It's only gambling in the way a professional poker player gambles.
- dextorious 15y ago
  Tons of "exceptionally talented" programmers got their respective startups nowhere. And the "exceptionally good company" -> success, borders on tautology, because how else do you measure an exceptionally good company besides success? """It's only gambling in the way a professional poker player gambles""" Yeah, you influence your fate and all. But poker is even less random than startup success --at least randomness there is constrained, will on a startup you have tons of sources of randomness: The startup founders, the employees, the economy in general, the society in general (fads, etc), investors, the client pool, you name it...

itmag 15y ago

I'm in my early 20s. Startups seem to be the only way out of 40 years of mediocrity in TPS-land for me, so I don't really think I have much of a choice. It's startups or nothing for me. Or maybe I am being myopic? Are there more options to be had in life than mediocrity/wageslavery vs glory/startups?

uptown 15y ago
"Are there more options to be had in life than mediocrity/wageslavery vs glory/startups?" Sure ... freelance. But depending on how you structure your work, you may end up with a similar work-load as a startup, or failure dropping you back into TPS-land.
- itmag 15y ago
  Yeah I've considered freelancing+frugality as a viable alternative. My goal being to minimize the amount of "work" I have to do to survive, so that I can focus on getting interesting stuff done. I just consider it such a damn waste to sit in an office all day and basically do jack shit. It's not even that I dislike the work all that much, it's just... all those wasted hours. All down the drain. </whine>
neilk 15y ago
You are believing exactly what investors and VCs want you to believe. You aren't escaping wage slavery, you are just substituting a different slavemaster. Wake up. There are billions of people on this planet. Do you think that the ones who aren't in Silicon Valley startups are all miserable? Their lives aren't worth living? Ok, but more specifically. Let's say you want to lead a creative existence, working with technology, and you love the SF scene so much you just have to live here. You don't need to be in a startup for that. As they tell you to be frugal with a startup, be frugal with you life and all sorts of possibilities open up. I know a number of people living in "hacker homes" where they drift in between working on startups, technology jobs, and then working on projects that just interest them. Sometimes they'll take an entire year off work to do something with no monetary gain, like a Burning Man or an open source project. You might have to live in an less desirable area with a lot of housemates, but once your rent is sub-$1000 and you cook most of your own food, you can live for an entire year once you've pulled off a couple of consulting gigs. You're young, and I presume you don't have a spouse or kids, so this option is very possible for you.