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There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment. The first long term studies are due in 2024. Whatever informed opin

by ipaddr 4y ago

There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment. The first long term studies are due in 2024. Whatever informed opinion you hold the studies haven't come out yet and you are taking a gamble. A gamble society encourages all to take and punishes those it can. If you can't staff your healthcare clinic or hospital because you fired experience doctors, nurses and staff there is a lot of politics taking place and very little practical medicine. Removing those experienced nurses created worse working conditions for the remaining nurses who quit due to crazy schedules. The new nurses are a net negative on senior staff who have to train them. Higher wages isn't going to help attract experienced nurses who aren't allowed to work.

pc86 4y ago
The COVID vaccine decreases the severity of the disease's symptoms. Regardless of the other benefits, isn't that enough reason to get it? Firing some nurse who gets their opinions from Dr. Oz and has crystals in their bedroom is a net positive for the healthcare system in my opinion. I want my healthcare practitioners to be people of science, who practice evidence-based medicine, and are willing to change their opinions on a dime based on the most recent studies. I'm certainly not the smartest person in the world, but I've met several healthcare providers in real life who have refused the vaccine and let's just say none of them gives off the air of a mental giant. Do you understand how insane you sound saying things like "the covid vaccine experiment?" Like some doctors just cooked up some crazy cocktail in 45 minutes and started sticking people with it on the street? Please.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Would you rather have a nurse who was a vaccine skeptic or no nurse? Honestly asking.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    No nurse. What other kind of bad advice will they give me?
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there exist people who are vaccine skeptics and are trained to a higher skill in life support than I am. I try not to judge people completely based on a single characteristic.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        That makes it worse not better. If my wife were pregnant, I also wouldn’t have her go to a doctor who “didn’t believe in abortion” under any circumstances even if her life were in danger.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        That's a strawman, because it's a directly impactful choice at the time of care. How does a person's personal vaccination status, ceterus paribus, affect the care you're likely to receive? Outside of, you know, directly asking them "Should I get vaccinated?" and being told "I wouldn't"?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        pc86 4y ago
        > How does a person's personal vaccination status affect the care you're likely to receive? Because it shows that they're not intellectually capable of making good medical decisions. The risk that the other medical decisions they will make are equally bad despite all evidence to the contrary increases.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        As far as I've met people, there are three groups: - Those who believe that anyone who doesn't vaccinate "isn't intellectually capable of making good medical decisions" - Those who are opposed to vaccination because they believe in conspiracy theories - Those who are are either pro- or anti- vaccination, but realize it's a complicated issue, with evidence-supported pros and cons, that other humans of reasonable intelligence can have different opinions than themselves about Unfortunately, the first two groups tend to be the loudest and most religious about it.
  - smileysteve 4y ago
    a 75 year old family member was prescribed Ivermectin for light Covid. I would rather no doctor. And family member has decided to seek a different doctor. Literally added a symptom.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      Doctors and nurses are two different jobs.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - KerrAvon 4y ago
    Would you rather have a fireman who used a firehouse connected to a water source or a water hose skeptic who insisted on using an empty bucket?
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      That's a bad metaphor, given that the point in question (vaccination) isn't a treatment (water) at the time of severe infection. Someone can simultaneously (a) be trained in critical care & (b) be a vaccine skeptic. It's analogous to meteorologists who don't believe in climate change: yes, it's kooky, but it's also not the job they're doing.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  The vaccine isn't evidence-based science because it is experimental. You are part of a group of people who decided to take part and provide data. In 2024 when the first long term studies are due evidence-based medicine will begin. It is crazy you are unaware of this. Weren't you required to sign a form acknowledging these facts and allowing the government to become the custodial holder of these records? On average the people not taking the vaccine are more tuned in, have more raw facts available and have made a serious decision by weighting the facts. Thinking that this group must be getting information from Dr Oz or some other political figure you are against and blinding following is shallow reasoning. They are not the part of society who would blindly follow what they heard on the news or what a popular figure thinks or what society thinks.
  - Tostino 4y ago
    HN comments have really gone down hill in quality. I'm quite sick of reading the same tired talking points you put up over and over.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      Your last ten comments are single sentences or something to enflame others or both. Are those the type of comments that are lacking?
    - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
      For anything medical related it has always been like this.
      - pc86 4y ago
        This is what happens when 26 year old tech bros who type JavaScript into a computer for $300k a year forget that there are a lot of things about the real world they don't actually understand. Anything related to medicine or non-IP law on HN is a dumpster fire.
        wbsss4412 4y ago
dahart 4y ago
This feels biased. Why is catching a disease that kills some people not gambling? I can understand why some people were concerned about this being experimental in the first month after the vaccine distribution started a year ago, though the vaccine had been pretty well studied already. Other mRNA vaccines have existed for decades and had long term studies. At this point, we’ve now done a massive global study and the vaccine has been tested more thoroughly than nearly any other vaccine on the planet. Odds of death with vaccine vs without have been pretty well and conclusively established to go down in the short term, no? Are you expecting there to be some kind of sudden mass side effect years afterward?
nikau 4y ago
This is akin to my mechanic being anti oil change due to some conspiracy theories - I don't want them touching my car.
- TrueSlacker0 4y ago
  The car manufacturer states that the oil should be changed every 10k miles based on 100 years of research. The vaccine hasn't been through a long term study yet.
buzzin_ 4y ago
"There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment." I will just ignore the full three phase trials on volunteers, because I am an antivaxer.

by ipaddr 4y ago

pc86 4y ago

The COVID vaccine decreases the severity of the disease's symptoms. Regardless of the other benefits, isn't that enough reason to get it? Firing some nurse who gets their opinions from Dr. Oz and has crystals in their bedroom is a net positive for the healthcare system in my opinion. I want my healthcare practitioners to be people of science, who practice evidence-based medicine, and are willing to change their opinions on a dime based on the most recent studies. I'm certainly not the smartest person in the world, but I've met several healthcare providers in real life who have refused the vaccine and let's just say none of them gives off the air of a mental giant. Do you understand how insane you sound saying things like "the covid vaccine experiment?" Like some doctors just cooked up some crazy cocktail in 45 minutes and started sticking people with it on the street? Please.

ethbr0 4y ago
Would you rather have a nurse who was a vaccine skeptic or no nurse? Honestly asking.
- scarface74 4y ago
  No nurse. What other kind of bad advice will they give me?
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there exist people who are vaccine skeptics and are trained to a higher skill in life support than I am. I try not to judge people completely based on a single characteristic.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      That makes it worse not better. If my wife were pregnant, I also wouldn’t have her go to a doctor who “didn’t believe in abortion” under any circumstances even if her life were in danger.
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        That's a strawman, because it's a directly impactful choice at the time of care. How does a person's personal vaccination status, ceterus paribus, affect the care you're likely to receive? Outside of, you know, directly asking them "Should I get vaccinated?" and being told "I wouldn't"?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        pc86 4y ago
        > How does a person's personal vaccination status affect the care you're likely to receive? Because it shows that they're not intellectually capable of making good medical decisions. The risk that the other medical decisions they will make are equally bad despite all evidence to the contrary increases.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        As far as I've met people, there are three groups: - Those who believe that anyone who doesn't vaccinate "isn't intellectually capable of making good medical decisions" - Those who are opposed to vaccination because they believe in conspiracy theories - Those who are are either pro- or anti- vaccination, but realize it's a complicated issue, with evidence-supported pros and cons, that other humans of reasonable intelligence can have different opinions than themselves about Unfortunately, the first two groups tend to be the loudest and most religious about it.
- smileysteve 4y ago
  a 75 year old family member was prescribed Ivermectin for light Covid. I would rather no doctor. And family member has decided to seek a different doctor. Literally added a symptom.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Doctors and nurses are two different jobs.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  Would you rather have a fireman who used a firehouse connected to a water source or a water hose skeptic who insisted on using an empty bucket?
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    That's a bad metaphor, given that the point in question (vaccination) isn't a treatment (water) at the time of severe infection. Someone can simultaneously (a) be trained in critical care & (b) be a vaccine skeptic. It's analogous to meteorologists who don't believe in climate change: yes, it's kooky, but it's also not the job they're doing.
ipaddr 4y ago
The vaccine isn't evidence-based science because it is experimental. You are part of a group of people who decided to take part and provide data. In 2024 when the first long term studies are due evidence-based medicine will begin. It is crazy you are unaware of this. Weren't you required to sign a form acknowledging these facts and allowing the government to become the custodial holder of these records? On average the people not taking the vaccine are more tuned in, have more raw facts available and have made a serious decision by weighting the facts. Thinking that this group must be getting information from Dr Oz or some other political figure you are against and blinding following is shallow reasoning. They are not the part of society who would blindly follow what they heard on the news or what a popular figure thinks or what society thinks.
- Tostino 4y ago
  HN comments have really gone down hill in quality. I'm quite sick of reading the same tired talking points you put up over and over.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Your last ten comments are single sentences or something to enflame others or both. Are those the type of comments that are lacking?
  - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
    For anything medical related it has always been like this.
    - pc86 4y ago
      This is what happens when 26 year old tech bros who type JavaScript into a computer for $300k a year forget that there are a lot of things about the real world they don't actually understand. Anything related to medicine or non-IP law on HN is a dumpster fire.
      - wbsss4412 4y ago

dahart 4y ago

This feels biased. Why is catching a disease that kills some people not gambling? I can understand why some people were concerned about this being experimental in the first month after the vaccine distribution started a year ago, though the vaccine had been pretty well studied already. Other mRNA vaccines have existed for decades and had long term studies. At this point, we’ve now done a massive global study and the vaccine has been tested more thoroughly than nearly any other vaccine on the planet. Odds of death with vaccine vs without have been pretty well and conclusively established to go down in the short term, no? Are you expecting there to be some kind of sudden mass side effect years afterward?

nikau 4y ago

This is akin to my mechanic being anti oil change due to some conspiracy theories - I don't want them touching my car.

TrueSlacker0 4y ago
The car manufacturer states that the oil should be changed every 10k miles based on 100 years of research. The vaccine hasn't been through a long term study yet.

buzzin_ 4y ago

"There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment." I will just ignore the full three phase trials on volunteers, because I am an antivaxer.