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Or fire nurses and/or pressure them to quit for not being upto date on 3 or 4 vaccines. Think of how many hospitals would have stayed open in Canada without the

by ipaddr 4y ago

Or fire nurses and/or pressure them to quit for not being upto date on 3 or 4 vaccines. Think of how many hospitals would have stayed open in Canada without the vaccine cull.

CamperBob2 4y ago
Good riddance. I don't want antivax nutcases on my healthcare team. They picked the wrong profession.
- pc86 4y ago
  It's insane to me that this got downvoted. Medical exemptions are a thing. If you truly can't receive a certain vaccine, you should still be allowed to get whatever job you want. But I'm sorry, if you "don't believe in" vaccines in general, or certain specific vaccines that have - for reasons passing all comprehension - become extremely political, you should not be a healthcare provider.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment. The first long term studies are due in 2024. Whatever informed opinion you hold the studies haven't come out yet and you are taking a gamble. A gamble society encourages all to take and punishes those it can. If you can't staff your healthcare clinic or hospital because you fired experience doctors, nurses and staff there is a lot of politics taking place and very little practical medicine. Removing those experienced nurses created worse working conditions for the remaining nurses who quit due to crazy schedules. The new nurses are a net negative on senior staff who have to train them. Higher wages isn't going to help attract experienced nurses who aren't allowed to work.
    - pc86 4y ago
      The COVID vaccine decreases the severity of the disease's symptoms. Regardless of the other benefits, isn't that enough reason to get it? Firing some nurse who gets their opinions from Dr. Oz and has crystals in their bedroom is a net positive for the healthcare system in my opinion. I want my healthcare practitioners to be people of science, who practice evidence-based medicine, and are willing to change their opinions on a dime based on the most recent studies. I'm certainly not the smartest person in the world, but I've met several healthcare providers in real life who have refused the vaccine and let's just say none of them gives off the air of a mental giant. Do you understand how insane you sound saying things like "the covid vaccine experiment?" Like some doctors just cooked up some crazy cocktail in 45 minutes and started sticking people with it on the street? Please.
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        Would you rather have a nurse who was a vaccine skeptic or no nurse? Honestly asking.
        scarface74 4y ago
        No nurse. What other kind of bad advice will they give me?
        ethbr0 4y ago
        I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there exist people who are vaccine skeptics and are trained to a higher skill in life support than I am. I try not to judge people completely based on a single characteristic.
        scarface74 4y ago
        That makes it worse not better. If my wife were pregnant, I also wouldn’t have her go to a doctor who “didn’t believe in abortion” under any circumstances even if her life were in danger.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        That's a strawman, because it's a directly impactful choice at the time of care. How does a person's personal vaccination status, ceterus paribus, affect the care you're likely to receive? Outside of, you know, directly asking them "Should I get vaccinated?" and being told "I wouldn't"?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        pc86 4y ago
        > How does a person's personal vaccination status affect the care you're likely to receive? Because it shows that they're not intellectually capable of making good medical decisions. The risk that the other medical decisions they will make are equally bad despite all evidence to the contrary increases.
    - dahart 4y ago
      This feels biased. Why is catching a disease that kills some people not gambling? I can understand why some people were concerned about this being experimental in the first month after the vaccine distribution started a year ago, though the vaccine had been pretty well studied already. Other mRNA vaccines have existed for decades and had long term studies. At this point, we’ve now done a massive global study and the vaccine has been tested more thoroughly than nearly any other vaccine on the planet. Odds of death with vaccine vs without have been pretty well and conclusively established to go down in the short term, no? Are you expecting there to be some kind of sudden mass side effect years afterward?
    - nikau 4y ago
      This is akin to my mechanic being anti oil change due to some conspiracy theories - I don't want them touching my car.
      - TrueSlacker0 4y ago
        The car manufacturer states that the oil should be changed every 10k miles based on 100 years of research. The vaccine hasn't been through a long term study yet.
    - buzzin_ 4y ago
      "There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment." I will just ignore the full three phase trials on volunteers, because I am an antivaxer.
  - ars 4y ago
    It would be one thing if the covid vaccine actually worked well, but it doesn't. It kind of works, but not especially well. Even worse is people who actually got covid, yet they want them to get a vaccine, which is rather pointless for them. Places with that particular policy demonstrate they don't care about science, they care about obedience to authority.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      - ipaddr 4y ago
        On this site many people can read scientific studies. Having a medical degree means you can apply to practice medicine for money. Forming opinions based on fact never required one.
        CamperBob2 4y ago
        You can read studies and form opinions all you want. I do the same. But the post I replied to offered unsolicited medical advice that blatantly contradicts the currently-available information from public health authorities. ("It would be one thing if the covid vaccine actually worked well, but it doesn't. It kind of works, but not especially well. Even worse is people who actually got covid, yet they want them to get a vaccine, which is rather pointless for them.") When you start to post bullshit online, that's when people -- very legitimately -- may choose to challenge your credentials. In fact, people should challenge your credentials in such cases. It doesn't happen anywhere near often enough, and that's a problem. If you disagree, then you're part of the same problem. Reconsider your position.
        scarface74 4y ago
        You can’t make informed opinions on a lot of areas without the prerequisite training and context
      - ars 4y ago
        You perhaps don't realize that having an MD degree does not make you qualified to speak about this. Very few practicing Doctors analyze this kind of data. The researchers who are qualified (and who I am getting my info from) don't have MD's, they have PhD's though. Nothing I'm saying is controversial you know. i.e. having or not having an MD degree has little to do with vaccine knowledge.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    If your health doesn’t allow you to get the needed vaccines and you are putting other people in jeopardy who are already more susceptible to death, you are just as unqualified for a job in the healthcare industry as I am of being a brain surgeon with cerebral palsy (I do in fact have CP) that leaves me unable to use one hand.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  I'm sympathetic to your point, but if your problem is "We don't have enough critical care nurses to provide care", then maybe don't do things that turn away nurses? Not saying it's acceptable or to be encouraged, but desperate times, lesser evil, etc.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    So you're ok with incompetent nurses? Not me.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      The perfect is the enemy of the good.
- refurb 4y ago
  Easy to say that until people are dying because you fired desperately needed healthcare workers. Across Canada they changed the rules and now Covid positive healthcare workers can now have direct patient interactions. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-may-allow-some-covid-positive-health-care-workers-to-keep-working-top-doctor-says-1.5722800 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-may-allow-some-covid-positive-heal... Apparently they can fire people who won't get vaccinated, but are willing to have Covid-positive doctors treat patients? Something doesn't line up. Apparently being unvaccinated is higher risk than actually having Covid?
  - vaidhy 4y ago
    What you said is not what the link says.it specifically says in appropriate places with appropriate protection when it is aympotomatic. You are projecting here. Nowhere does it say direct patient interaction.. in fact it says the opposite that healthcare workers who are sick (whether of covid or something else) should not be near patients.
    - refurb 4y ago
      https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-health-working-with-covid-symptoms-1.6538193 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-health-workin... The Health Ministry confirmed in an email that it is possible for workers who test positive to be asked back to work, even if they have symptoms, but only in cases of "persistent compromise of access to services" and when all other options have been exhausted.

by ipaddr 4y ago

Or fire nurses and/or pressure them to quit for not being upto date on 3 or 4 vaccines. Think of how many hospitals would have stayed open in Canada without the vaccine cull.

CamperBob2 4y ago

Good riddance. I don't want antivax nutcases on my healthcare team. They picked the wrong profession.

pc86 4y ago
It's insane to me that this got downvoted. Medical exemptions are a thing. If you truly can't receive a certain vaccine, you should still be allowed to get whatever job you want. But I'm sorry, if you "don't believe in" vaccines in general, or certain specific vaccines that have - for reasons passing all comprehension - become extremely political, you should not be a healthcare provider.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment. The first long term studies are due in 2024. Whatever informed opinion you hold the studies haven't come out yet and you are taking a gamble. A gamble society encourages all to take and punishes those it can. If you can't staff your healthcare clinic or hospital because you fired experience doctors, nurses and staff there is a lot of politics taking place and very little practical medicine. Removing those experienced nurses created worse working conditions for the remaining nurses who quit due to crazy schedules. The new nurses are a net negative on senior staff who have to train them. Higher wages isn't going to help attract experienced nurses who aren't allowed to work.
  - pc86 4y ago
    The COVID vaccine decreases the severity of the disease's symptoms. Regardless of the other benefits, isn't that enough reason to get it? Firing some nurse who gets their opinions from Dr. Oz and has crystals in their bedroom is a net positive for the healthcare system in my opinion. I want my healthcare practitioners to be people of science, who practice evidence-based medicine, and are willing to change their opinions on a dime based on the most recent studies. I'm certainly not the smartest person in the world, but I've met several healthcare providers in real life who have refused the vaccine and let's just say none of them gives off the air of a mental giant. Do you understand how insane you sound saying things like "the covid vaccine experiment?" Like some doctors just cooked up some crazy cocktail in 45 minutes and started sticking people with it on the street? Please.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      Would you rather have a nurse who was a vaccine skeptic or no nurse? Honestly asking.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        No nurse. What other kind of bad advice will they give me?
        ethbr0 4y ago
        I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there exist people who are vaccine skeptics and are trained to a higher skill in life support than I am. I try not to judge people completely based on a single characteristic.
        scarface74 4y ago
        That makes it worse not better. If my wife were pregnant, I also wouldn’t have her go to a doctor who “didn’t believe in abortion” under any circumstances even if her life were in danger.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        That's a strawman, because it's a directly impactful choice at the time of care. How does a person's personal vaccination status, ceterus paribus, affect the care you're likely to receive? Outside of, you know, directly asking them "Should I get vaccinated?" and being told "I wouldn't"?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        pc86 4y ago
        > How does a person's personal vaccination status affect the care you're likely to receive? Because it shows that they're not intellectually capable of making good medical decisions. The risk that the other medical decisions they will make are equally bad despite all evidence to the contrary increases.
  - dahart 4y ago
    This feels biased. Why is catching a disease that kills some people not gambling? I can understand why some people were concerned about this being experimental in the first month after the vaccine distribution started a year ago, though the vaccine had been pretty well studied already. Other mRNA vaccines have existed for decades and had long term studies. At this point, we’ve now done a massive global study and the vaccine has been tested more thoroughly than nearly any other vaccine on the planet. Odds of death with vaccine vs without have been pretty well and conclusively established to go down in the short term, no? Are you expecting there to be some kind of sudden mass side effect years afterward?
  - nikau 4y ago
    This is akin to my mechanic being anti oil change due to some conspiracy theories - I don't want them touching my car.
    - TrueSlacker0 4y ago
      The car manufacturer states that the oil should be changed every 10k miles based on 100 years of research. The vaccine hasn't been through a long term study yet.
  - buzzin_ 4y ago
    "There are many valid reasons for not wanting to take part in the covid vaccine experiment." I will just ignore the full three phase trials on volunteers, because I am an antivaxer.
- ars 4y ago
  It would be one thing if the covid vaccine actually worked well, but it doesn't. It kind of works, but not especially well. Even worse is people who actually got covid, yet they want them to get a vaccine, which is rather pointless for them. Places with that particular policy demonstrate they don't care about science, they care about obedience to authority.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      On this site many people can read scientific studies. Having a medical degree means you can apply to practice medicine for money. Forming opinions based on fact never required one.
      - CamperBob2 4y ago
        You can read studies and form opinions all you want. I do the same. But the post I replied to offered unsolicited medical advice that blatantly contradicts the currently-available information from public health authorities. ("It would be one thing if the covid vaccine actually worked well, but it doesn't. It kind of works, but not especially well. Even worse is people who actually got covid, yet they want them to get a vaccine, which is rather pointless for them.") When you start to post bullshit online, that's when people -- very legitimately -- may choose to challenge your credentials. In fact, people should challenge your credentials in such cases. It doesn't happen anywhere near often enough, and that's a problem. If you disagree, then you're part of the same problem. Reconsider your position.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        You can’t make informed opinions on a lot of areas without the prerequisite training and context
    - ars 4y ago
      You perhaps don't realize that having an MD degree does not make you qualified to speak about this. Very few practicing Doctors analyze this kind of data. The researchers who are qualified (and who I am getting my info from) don't have MD's, they have PhD's though. Nothing I'm saying is controversial you know. i.e. having or not having an MD degree has little to do with vaccine knowledge.
- scarface74 4y ago
  If your health doesn’t allow you to get the needed vaccines and you are putting other people in jeopardy who are already more susceptible to death, you are just as unqualified for a job in the healthcare industry as I am of being a brain surgeon with cerebral palsy (I do in fact have CP) that leaves me unable to use one hand.
ethbr0 4y ago
I'm sympathetic to your point, but if your problem is "We don't have enough critical care nurses to provide care", then maybe don't do things that turn away nurses? Not saying it's acceptable or to be encouraged, but desperate times, lesser evil, etc.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  So you're ok with incompetent nurses? Not me.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    The perfect is the enemy of the good.
refurb 4y ago
Easy to say that until people are dying because you fired desperately needed healthcare workers. Across Canada they changed the rules and now Covid positive healthcare workers can now have direct patient interactions. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-may-allow-some-covid-positive-health-care-workers-to-keep-working-top-doctor-says-1.5722800 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-may-allow-some-covid-positive-heal... Apparently they can fire people who won't get vaccinated, but are willing to have Covid-positive doctors treat patients? Something doesn't line up. Apparently being unvaccinated is higher risk than actually having Covid?
- vaidhy 4y ago
  What you said is not what the link says.it specifically says in appropriate places with appropriate protection when it is aympotomatic. You are projecting here. Nowhere does it say direct patient interaction.. in fact it says the opposite that healthcare workers who are sick (whether of covid or something else) should not be near patients.
  - refurb 4y ago
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-health-working-with-covid-symptoms-1.6538193 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-health-workin... The Health Ministry confirmed in an email that it is possible for workers who test positive to be asked back to work, even if they have symptoms, but only in cases of "persistent compromise of access to services" and when all other options have been exhausted.