6 ms·

I'm curious if non-competes were a thing at this period of time. I'm not sure if something like this could happen today (although I'm sure it still happens).

kube-system 4y ago
Non-competes have been a thing for centuries, but California banned them in 1872.
- swyx 4y ago
  which is awfully convenient that amzn and microsoft (and uber?) are based in washington state where this doesnt apply
klyrs 4y ago
Noncompetes are pretty toothless, even illegal in several jurisdictions. Even then, a company with money and clout to poach talent like that can also stand up for you if your failing ex-employer chooses to lash out.
- n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
  >Noncompetes are pretty toothless Not true. They’re illegal in California, but in other US states where they are legal they can be quite toothful. I have seen several ex-employees of my prior company get sued and lose. It became a silent doctrine to just leave a two year gap on your public LinkedIn after working there. If you put anything in that period (the length of the non-compete), you were at risk of the CTO suing you for fun if he thought any of the scope your prior work overlapped with your new role. Fun stuff.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    > >Noncompetes are pretty toothless > Not true. Sure, if you delete the "in several jurisdictions". But when you read the entire sentence, then what I said is correct.
  - Aloha 4y ago
    In texas they must have a geographic nexus in them, so if you move from Austin to Dallas, its often void.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    They are also illegal in most European countries.
    - ManlyBread 4y ago
      The one in Poland is fun. You can bar someone from working in the same field for quite some time but you must pay them 70-80% (I don't quite remember how much but something like that) of their annual salary during that time. Which means that most of the people proposing this kind of deal are clueless ans greedy businessmen who think they found a perfect leash for their employees but what's actually happening is that they find out far too late that it's binding them and not the employee.
    - morelisp 4y ago
      They're not illegal in Germany, but the legal requirements are so onerous (50% salary paid for the duration of the non-compete) nobody does it. I believe it's similar in France.
      - wongarsu 4y ago
        They can be done in Germany if they are very limited in scope, basically if they don't make it harder to find your next job. But it's a fine line, and if a court decides you stepped over the line it's as you described. Nobody sane would put it in a standard contract below C-level.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        Yep,same in France, and they have to be geographically limited.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Interesting, as given most of my clarification talks with Betriebsrat, I thought it wouldn't be valid in court, unless they can prove you are doing some kind of industrial spionage like working in exactly 1:1 competing product.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I think Massachusetts has similar rules these days (after long-running opposition from some major employers). However, while 50% salary definitely makes a company put skin in the game, it's not a panacea. And, from an employee point of view, how many people will be comfortable with taking 50% salary (with no benefits, bonuses, or RSUs) to hang out for a year? Sure, some younger folks might see it as an opportunity but it may not be such a good deal for someone supporting a family.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    They're not illegal. They're just generally unenforceable. And, even if you don't end up losing after being sued, many people won't roll the dice if a threatened with a suit because they'll probably be out big bucks even if they win. Better to just take a year off; I've known people who have done so when they've been in a situation where a prior employer was likely to sue.

kube-system 4y ago

Non-competes have been a thing for centuries, but California banned them in 1872.

swyx 4y ago
which is awfully convenient that amzn and microsoft (and uber?) are based in washington state where this doesnt apply

klyrs 4y ago

Noncompetes are pretty toothless, even illegal in several jurisdictions. Even then, a company with money and clout to poach talent like that can also stand up for you if your failing ex-employer chooses to lash out.

n0tth3dro1ds 4y ago
>Noncompetes are pretty toothless Not true. They’re illegal in California, but in other US states where they are legal they can be quite toothful. I have seen several ex-employees of my prior company get sued and lose. It became a silent doctrine to just leave a two year gap on your public LinkedIn after working there. If you put anything in that period (the length of the non-compete), you were at risk of the CTO suing you for fun if he thought any of the scope your prior work overlapped with your new role. Fun stuff.
- klyrs 4y ago
  > >Noncompetes are pretty toothless > Not true. Sure, if you delete the "in several jurisdictions". But when you read the entire sentence, then what I said is correct.
- Aloha 4y ago
  In texas they must have a geographic nexus in them, so if you move from Austin to Dallas, its often void.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  They are also illegal in most European countries.
  - ManlyBread 4y ago
    The one in Poland is fun. You can bar someone from working in the same field for quite some time but you must pay them 70-80% (I don't quite remember how much but something like that) of their annual salary during that time. Which means that most of the people proposing this kind of deal are clueless ans greedy businessmen who think they found a perfect leash for their employees but what's actually happening is that they find out far too late that it's binding them and not the employee.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    They're not illegal in Germany, but the legal requirements are so onerous (50% salary paid for the duration of the non-compete) nobody does it. I believe it's similar in France.
    - wongarsu 4y ago
      They can be done in Germany if they are very limited in scope, basically if they don't make it harder to find your next job. But it's a fine line, and if a court decides you stepped over the line it's as you described. Nobody sane would put it in a standard contract below C-level.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Yep,same in France, and they have to be geographically limited.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Interesting, as given most of my clarification talks with Betriebsrat, I thought it wouldn't be valid in court, unless they can prove you are doing some kind of industrial spionage like working in exactly 1:1 competing product.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I think Massachusetts has similar rules these days (after long-running opposition from some major employers). However, while 50% salary definitely makes a company put skin in the game, it's not a panacea. And, from an employee point of view, how many people will be comfortable with taking 50% salary (with no benefits, bonuses, or RSUs) to hang out for a year? Sure, some younger folks might see it as an opportunity but it may not be such a good deal for someone supporting a family.
- ghaff 4y ago
  They're not illegal. They're just generally unenforceable. And, even if you don't end up losing after being sued, many people won't roll the dice if a threatened with a suit because they'll probably be out big bucks even if they win. Better to just take a year off; I've known people who have done so when they've been in a situation where a prior employer was likely to sue.