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The wedding photographer/videographer business I discussed in another thread last week. All his employees quit and he went under. I've personally been involve

The wedding photographer/videographer business I discussed in another thread last week. All his employees quit and he went under. I've personally been involved with more than one general contractor going under. When I was a young carpenter, I followed my best friend from job to job and contractor to contractor. When he walked off a job, the rest of us followed. He and I and a group of Dominicans (from Dominica not the DR) put more than one GC out of business because we'd walk and then we'd tell everyone we knew that they shouldn't work for said GC. When I became older and my friend moved away, I took his place. It was so satisfying leaving a job and then receiving a phone call from the client a few days/week later asking me and the crew to come back and finish with promises that the GC would be out of the picture. It's incredibly difficult to find skilled tradesman in the Caribbean that will show up sober each day and perform quality work. We always had the long end of the stick.

pvillano 4y ago
I wonder what can be generalized from this experience to empower workers in other industries. My guess is that the tradesmen you worked with have negotiating power because they can find another GC. That relies on there being many competing companies. That can only happen in industries with low start-up costs and small economies of scale. Railway operation has huge start-up costs and large economies of scale. I think a long term solution depends on the nationalization of track or at least the separation of train and track ownership, with track operators required to provide nondiscriminatory access. Not gonna happen but one can dream. Again, all guesses, but I'd like to hear what someone more knowledgeable has to say
nmarinov 4y ago
Link to the wedding business comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32740708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32740708
- raverbashing 4y ago
  lol that's a delightful story Sounds like the archetype of "being a manager means being angry at people. business knowledge optional"
  - bufferoverflow 4y ago
    It also sounds like an untrue story. You can find photo/video editors all over the internet. As a photographer I'm spammed by the Chinese ones every week. Looking at their portfolios, they aren't even bad (though I don't know how real their portfolios are).
robinsoh 4y ago
> It's incredibly difficult to find skilled tradesman in the Caribbean that will show up sober each day and perform quality work. There's a lot to unpack in that sentence. Care to elaborate?
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  I know nothing about the Caribbean, but I can tell you about middle America. I’ve heard a lot of people talk about having a job foreman for the home renovation/whatever project tell them “so-and-so had a beer at lunch, but they’re good. Do you mind?” FYI, that’s a trap. If there is a jobsite accident that afternoon, you are liable for allowing someone who’s been drinking to work.
- DelaneyM 4y ago
  I will echo this and share some context. The biggest challenge I've had is that trade schools and certifications are inconsistent, so it's not easy to vet candidates; a lot of hiring is intra-island, requiring significant up-front investment in people without knowing that they'll work out; and equipment and regulations (especially electrical) are highly variable, making it hard for a crew to deliver consistent quality. That context gives a lot of room for crews and contractors to take advantage of inexperienced project managers and investors, and since the corrupt teams aren't brought back they tend to be the ones which are available for the next gig. When you find a great team you treasure them and even find work to keep them busy and happy between projects. It's actually a remarkably similar dynamic to H1B engineer mills in the US. Many H1B engineers are brilliant, the best of the world looking for a challenge in America. But many are pawns in outsourcing meat markets.
- pryelluw 4y ago
  Eh, it’s not exclusive to the Caribbean. Construction is hard work and my experience is people who work it tend to drink (more). Im from the Caribbean.
- mellavora 4y ago
  Having just overseen a construction project in rural Spain,... workers show up sober, that's not the problem. Problem is they are not trained in the trade. Never heard of vibrating concrete. Or curing times. Setting pillars by 'eye', not even using a plumb line. Carpenter delivers the doors unfinished. These are outside doors. Door lock mechanism installed wrong, such that the door locks (once) but cannot unlock. The painter was decent, but his background was as a Venezuelan helicopter mechanic. Left Venezuela for economic reasons. Workers showing up without the basic tools for the day's work, so had to supply them myself. Obvious stuff like blades for the angle grinders. Oh, and coordinating supplies and work, nah, not really a thing.

pvillano 4y ago

I wonder what can be generalized from this experience to empower workers in other industries. My guess is that the tradesmen you worked with have negotiating power because they can find another GC. That relies on there being many competing companies. That can only happen in industries with low start-up costs and small economies of scale. Railway operation has huge start-up costs and large economies of scale. I think a long term solution depends on the nationalization of track or at least the separation of train and track ownership, with track operators required to provide nondiscriminatory access. Not gonna happen but one can dream. Again, all guesses, but I'd like to hear what someone more knowledgeable has to say

nmarinov 4y ago

Link to the wedding business comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32740708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32740708

raverbashing 4y ago
lol that's a delightful story Sounds like the archetype of "being a manager means being angry at people. business knowledge optional"
- bufferoverflow 4y ago
  It also sounds like an untrue story. You can find photo/video editors all over the internet. As a photographer I'm spammed by the Chinese ones every week. Looking at their portfolios, they aren't even bad (though I don't know how real their portfolios are).

robinsoh 4y ago

> It's incredibly difficult to find skilled tradesman in the Caribbean that will show up sober each day and perform quality work. There's a lot to unpack in that sentence. Care to elaborate?

Kon-Peki 4y ago
I know nothing about the Caribbean, but I can tell you about middle America. I’ve heard a lot of people talk about having a job foreman for the home renovation/whatever project tell them “so-and-so had a beer at lunch, but they’re good. Do you mind?” FYI, that’s a trap. If there is a jobsite accident that afternoon, you are liable for allowing someone who’s been drinking to work.
DelaneyM 4y ago
I will echo this and share some context. The biggest challenge I've had is that trade schools and certifications are inconsistent, so it's not easy to vet candidates; a lot of hiring is intra-island, requiring significant up-front investment in people without knowing that they'll work out; and equipment and regulations (especially electrical) are highly variable, making it hard for a crew to deliver consistent quality. That context gives a lot of room for crews and contractors to take advantage of inexperienced project managers and investors, and since the corrupt teams aren't brought back they tend to be the ones which are available for the next gig. When you find a great team you treasure them and even find work to keep them busy and happy between projects. It's actually a remarkably similar dynamic to H1B engineer mills in the US. Many H1B engineers are brilliant, the best of the world looking for a challenge in America. But many are pawns in outsourcing meat markets.
pryelluw 4y ago
Eh, it’s not exclusive to the Caribbean. Construction is hard work and my experience is people who work it tend to drink (more). Im from the Caribbean.
mellavora 4y ago
Having just overseen a construction project in rural Spain,... workers show up sober, that's not the problem. Problem is they are not trained in the trade. Never heard of vibrating concrete. Or curing times. Setting pillars by 'eye', not even using a plumb line. Carpenter delivers the doors unfinished. These are outside doors. Door lock mechanism installed wrong, such that the door locks (once) but cannot unlock. The painter was decent, but his background was as a Venezuelan helicopter mechanic. Left Venezuela for economic reasons. Workers showing up without the basic tools for the day's work, so had to supply them myself. Obvious stuff like blades for the angle grinders. Oh, and coordinating supplies and work, nah, not really a thing.