3 ms·

The entertaining thing here, though, is the creators of TC made the blueprint for a brick and then told a bunch of other people running ethereum virtual machine

The entertaining thing here, though, is the creators of TC made the blueprint for a brick and then told a bunch of other people running ethereum virtual machines they they had a plan for a brick. Some initial gas fees were paid so the users would actually absorb the 'brick' program. Then the creator of TC stepped away. The node operators took the gas fees in exchange for putting the brick on their accelerator and validated the brick contracts. Who's to sanction here? Honestly the node operators running the Ethereum virtual machine 'car' look like the closest human to hold accountable, if that's the desirable outcome. Continuing our logic, ethereum should basically be shutdown if the runners of the brick program are to be held accountable, because that's basically every node.

woodruffw 4y ago
This is a fantastic point, and (IMO) reveals the government’s actual intended strategy here. For better or worse, the government seems to be intent on making a lesson out of the Tornado Cash developer, rather than attempting (probably pointlessly) to shut down all of Ethereum. The point seems to be to send a message: if you publish the brick blueprint, you will be considered the entity responsible. This accomplishes both of the government’s goals: it disincentives future attempts to launder money through smart contracts, and it avoids a protracted legal and technical battle over individual cryptocurrencies and their networks. Edit: And there are clear parallels in existing legal reasoning: we do not prosecute steel factories for following a client’s specification faithfully, even if it’s later revealed that the specification was in furtherance of something illegal to manufacture (like an unregulated weapon). The exception is when the factory goes to unusual lengths to turn a blind eye, which the government might present evidence to argue negligence or conspiracy.
- DennisP 4y ago
  In that case the government runs into First Amendment issues. Bernstein vs. US ruled that source code counts as protected speech, and courts do consider chilling effects to be infringement.
salawat 4y ago
Technically speaking, every Ethereum node operator with that code is now potentially an unlicensed money transmitter, in violation of U.S. banking regulations. It'll really only take getting enough of the right ears to get this recognized. Make no mistake, it was never the intent of the United States Government to leave the door open to everyone to operate their own personal money transmitter. That's actually something I like about this to be honest. There really is no avoiding coming to terms with the fact that structurally speaking, the U.S. regulatory edifice outsources to private industry. All the typical "It's a private business, not the government" people need a reality check. This is how regulation works.
- from 4y ago
  > Technically speaking, every Ethereum node operator with that code is now potentially an unlicensed money transmitter, in violation of U.S. banking regulations. Except Treasury has released guidance saying the opposite. Not sure what would make one so giddy about a mandatory and opaque financial surveillance apparatus being a part of daily life.
  - salawat 4y ago
    >Not sure what would make one so giddy about a mandatory and opaque financial surveillance apparatus being a part of daily life. The part where it becomes common knowledge and we actually have a more public discussion on whether it's a good idea in the long run. I actually feel quite squicky about the fact that most people don't seem to realize there's this orchestrated black hole capability strategically wielded with very little recourse by the Executive.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      The sooner Americans realize they're basically all criminals, the better. The arbitrary and capricious selection of who to hold accountable for TC transactions is classic divide-and-conquer tactic. The 'honest' reader here should realize they aren't the 'good guy'. They're just someone a prosecutor hasn't found convenient to destroy yet.

woodruffw 4y ago

This is a fantastic point, and (IMO) reveals the government’s actual intended strategy here. For better or worse, the government seems to be intent on making a lesson out of the Tornado Cash developer, rather than attempting (probably pointlessly) to shut down all of Ethereum. The point seems to be to send a message: if you publish the brick blueprint, you will be considered the entity responsible. This accomplishes both of the government’s goals: it disincentives future attempts to launder money through smart contracts, and it avoids a protracted legal and technical battle over individual cryptocurrencies and their networks. Edit: And there are clear parallels in existing legal reasoning: we do not prosecute steel factories for following a client’s specification faithfully, even if it’s later revealed that the specification was in furtherance of something illegal to manufacture (like an unregulated weapon). The exception is when the factory goes to unusual lengths to turn a blind eye, which the government might present evidence to argue negligence or conspiracy.

DennisP 4y ago
In that case the government runs into First Amendment issues. Bernstein vs. US ruled that source code counts as protected speech, and courts do consider chilling effects to be infringement.

salawat 4y ago

Technically speaking, every Ethereum node operator with that code is now potentially an unlicensed money transmitter, in violation of U.S. banking regulations. It'll really only take getting enough of the right ears to get this recognized. Make no mistake, it was never the intent of the United States Government to leave the door open to everyone to operate their own personal money transmitter. That's actually something I like about this to be honest. There really is no avoiding coming to terms with the fact that structurally speaking, the U.S. regulatory edifice outsources to private industry. All the typical "It's a private business, not the government" people need a reality check. This is how regulation works.

from 4y ago
> Technically speaking, every Ethereum node operator with that code is now potentially an unlicensed money transmitter, in violation of U.S. banking regulations. Except Treasury has released guidance saying the opposite. Not sure what would make one so giddy about a mandatory and opaque financial surveillance apparatus being a part of daily life.
- salawat 4y ago
  >Not sure what would make one so giddy about a mandatory and opaque financial surveillance apparatus being a part of daily life. The part where it becomes common knowledge and we actually have a more public discussion on whether it's a good idea in the long run. I actually feel quite squicky about the fact that most people don't seem to realize there's this orchestrated black hole capability strategically wielded with very little recourse by the Executive.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    The sooner Americans realize they're basically all criminals, the better. The arbitrary and capricious selection of who to hold accountable for TC transactions is classic divide-and-conquer tactic. The 'honest' reader here should realize they aren't the 'good guy'. They're just someone a prosecutor hasn't found convenient to destroy yet.