7 ms·

I Use a Chromebook

31 points by devonnull 4y ago

torginus 4y ago
I still don't get Chromebooks. I don't buy the argument that the OS is so lightweight, as any savings one can get by getting rid of the legacy Windows cruft is more than offset by the resource demands of webapps. In fact, I'd argue that the most demanding apps I run on my Macbook are webapps as well. They look like cheap laptops to me. And they are priced like cheap laptops as well, with all the pains it entails.
- dagw 4y ago
  I get them for places like schools or environments where there is high risk of your laptop being stolen or damaged. If you lose or breaks one you can easily replace it with any random other Chromebook and be back up and running in minutes and it is basically impossible to 'break' the software on it (and if you do, resetting it is trivial).
samoit 4y ago
Instead of using a "free of spyware/crapware operating system" you use a crap laptop with low specs. But wait, its so useless that it has to emulate a real linux to do something usefull... and as nobody is developing "apps/webs" for "native" cromiumOS you also need another layer of emulation for android. Hummm, no thank you I will keep with my debian runing...
- jmcnulty 4y ago
  ChromeOS runs Debian in an LXD container. You can install desktop apps in it (e.g. using Flatpak) and they appear as launchable icons on the ChromeOS desktop. Being LXD you're not just limited to one container either. I have additional multiple containers with Ubuntu and AlmaLinux on my Chromebook and can use other LXD features to snapshot and publish them as required. This is far from being "useless".
  - torginus 4y ago
    You can? I thought it ran on a totally nonstandard stack meaning no X, PulseAudio, systemd etc. How do regular Linux apps work? Is there some sort of compatibility layer?
  - hulitu 4y ago
    Windows also runs Ubuntu. That's really not a good reason to use it
steve_john 4y ago
Chromebooks have come a long way since they were introduced in 2011. They can be 2-in-1s, run almost any app on the planet with Chrome Remote Desktop, play Chrome OS games, and run Google and Android apps like Skype, Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Assistant, WhatsApp, and many more
- romwell 4y ago
  > run almost any app on the planet with Chrome Remote Desktop You must be kidding, right? By that standard, my monitor can run any app in the world... as long as I plug it into a computer that runs it! Thin clients have been a thing for a while. They don't run apps. That's the point.
  - panny 4y ago
    >You must be kidding, right? No, he's not. You can run Android applications on the device, they're not running remotely. You can also run Linux applications using Crostini, on the device. The real limitation I found with either of these approaches is that they are sandboxed in such a way as the apps are always hobbled. Android applications can only reach a sandboxed file system. Linux apps can't use GPU. Neither can read USB storage. Stuff like that. Some of those may be fixed now, but after trying for a couple of years, I eventually gave up on ChromeOS ever working as advertised in that regard. Running applications on ChromeOS is a sort of toy feature that might work, but if it doesn't, don't expect any attention in making it work, because you're the weirdo trying to run apps on ChromeOS.
    - romwell 4y ago
      I am specifically referring to this part: >run almost any app on the planet with Chrome Remote Desktop Sure, any device that can run RealVNC is capable of running "almost any app on the planet" then.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      On selected devices, usually more expensive than equivalent GNU/Linux or Windows laptops.
HeavenBanned 4y ago
There can be a serious argument made for getting chromebooks out to the 3rd/2nd world. Honestly, we don't _need_ to "do more" (as the article plainly points out) and can get people connected and productive in no time. Sure, it has its drawbacks (crapware/spyware/bloatware) but if that offsets the cost of production and profits then basically...why not?
panny 4y ago
I use a Chromebook. I don't use ChromeOS. I buy the loss leader hardware, install coreboot from mrchromebox.tech, then wipe the internal drive of ChromeOS and install Linux. I can get a higher spec mid-range laptop for a lower price. 8GB of RAM and an i5 is plenty for me.
- dagw 4y ago
  Is the hardware really that much of a loss leader? I just poked around a bit and found plenty of 8GB i5 Windows laptops selling for exactly the same price as equivalent ChromeOS laptops. And that isn't even taking the whole second hand market into account. You can pick up a very nice used X series Thinkpad for the same price as a new Chromebook.
- smeej 4y ago
  Same here. And because it's already designed for compatibility with the Linux kernel (because ChromeOS is Linux), it works so much better than most machines I've installed Linux on after Windows.
  - stonogo 4y ago
    How often do you (and your parent poster) find yourself stuck with 'vendor kernels' on these machines a la arm devices? I've tried twice to rehabilitate Chromebooks; in the first instance I was stymied by lack of mainline support for the chipset involved, and in the second case there was no mainline support for the soldered-in broadcom wifi. Is this common, or is there a trick to avoiding buying encumbered hardware?
    - toast0 4y ago
      1) Be sure to buy things on the mrchromebox support list 2) Don't buy a chromeos device with an arm processor 3) Don't buy a chromeos device with an atom processor 4) Maybe don't buy one with an AMD processor, but I'm not sure?
- biomcgary 4y ago
  How reliable is the process of wiping ChromeOS and running Linux? I used crostini for awhile, but I was worried about bricking the laptop if I dumped ChromeOS completely.
turtlebits 4y ago
IMO, it's the cheap hardware which rules out Chromebooks for me. The Pixelbook is one my favorite laptops (barring the huge bezels and sub-par keyboard). Too bad the the Android experience is pretty bad, or else I'd still use it.
toastedwedge 4y ago
I hadn't initially considered a Chromebook until I found out about GalliumOS. Then I realized I could get a lightweight, cheap laptop, that also has fantastic battery life. I've tried putting both plain Arch and Debian on it, but the networking seems hit and miss. But that's alright because it's not my main machine. Makes a great auxiliary computer though!
- zumu 4y ago
  GalliumOS is awesome, but sadly dead development-wise AFAIK. The public repos haven't been touched since January 2021.
romwell 4y ago
When I started working at Google in 2018, I got a shiny new beefed-up Chromebook to work on. See, the idea was that I'll do Google work on Google equipment, using Google software (NIH was the religion there). Google's IDE, Cider, ran in Chrome; it integrated with version control and what not. Nobody on our team used Chromebooks - everybody got a Mac - but I thought I'll give it a go. Well it was a mistake. Having a computer that doesn't work as a computer is frustrating. Congratulations to everyone who can convince themselves they don't "need" things that computers do while using a computer. Yes, one can do a lot with a browser. But the list of things you can't do is immensely vaster. The compromise can make sense when you use a tablet or a phone, and have a specialized OS tailored to the use case. But Chromebooks are literally just laptop PCs. You get all the disadvantages of using a laptop (size, weight, etc), while getting all the disadvantages of trying to do things on a phone OS. It's a lose-lose scenario. The question here is not what the author can do with their Chromebooks, or why it works for them. The question is what someone could gain from using a Chromebook over a similarly-sized laptop running Windows/Linux/MacOS. The author claims it's "snappiness" - by comparing to Windows 10 running on absolute crap hardware. I'm not convinced, but I'll take their word. Of course, that doesn't apply if you buy non-crap, but slightly older hardware.
- toast0 4y ago
  > The question is what someone could gain from using a Chromebook over a similarly-sized laptop running Windows/Linux/MacOS. It's not foolproof, but these are good candidate devices for the terminally computer illiterate. Scam call centers aren't trained on ChromeOS takeovers as well as they are for Windows, but the user interface is close enough to Windows for users trained to use Windows. In case of large trouble, powerwash is easily accessible and fast. The ephemeral nature means replacing hardware doesn't require data transfer. The big downside is it's tied to a Google account, which means if you can't manage a Google account (because you like resetting your password instead of finding your password book, and writing the new password somewhere else you can't find, etc), you're going to end up with a Guest login account which is less functional.
  - romwell 4y ago
wildrhythms 4y ago
I think all web designers and developers should use a Chromebook, especially a cheap one. Not necessarily to develop on, but to understand first-hand how their site is going to behave on devices that aren't some max-specced $4k Macbook with a IPS super high resolution display for once.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  What do you mean I can't run my sixty dozen frameworks of JavaShit to real-time encode and render my MP4 disguised as a GIF so it can occupy 120% of the monitor before you get to read anything on my webpage?
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  Raspberry pi 4 is good for that.
  - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
    Also, netbooks with Celeron N4020's and 4GB RAM soldered onto the motherboard without any ability to upgrade.
    - type0 4y ago
      I thought netbooks were dying breed, also there's an abundance of cheap NUC style PC for even cheaper.
      - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
        Not at all. They're not as hyped as they used to be, but 11" notebooks with low specs are definitely both cheap and available.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Raziarazzi 4y ago
Google did it to tighten up their fortified landscape experience for a subset of users, and in the process, messed with the general-purpose computer.
bdcravens 4y ago
> So we’ve been hearing “This will be the year of the Linux desktop” every year for at least a decade This has been a meme for longer than it was taken seriously.
LordHeini 4y ago
I got a smallish Chromebook which has a detachable keyboard so can be used as a Tablet as well (a Lenovo Duet). It is somewhat slow but cheap, lightweight and the battery holds forever. This thing is quite practical for surfing on the couch or writing the odd email while on vacation. I would never consider this for serious work but i really like it as a sort larger smartphone with a keyboard which can run Linux applications if need be. As a student i used one of those crappy Netbooks that thing was more expensive and (not considering the privacy issues of ChromeOs) way worse. Those Chromebooks are fine as sort of a more capable tablet which you use alongside a "proper" Desktop/Laptop.
type0 4y ago
Chromebook is not a good buy if you want a cheap Linux machine. Look at old thinkpad or NUC-kind of PC instead

31 points by devonnull 4y ago

I still don't get Chromebooks. I don't buy the argument that the OS is so lightweight, as any savings one can get by getting rid of the legacy Windows cruft is more than offset by the resource demands of webapps. In fact, I'd argue that the most demanding apps I run on my Macbook are webapps as well. They look like cheap laptops to me. And they are priced like cheap laptops as well, with all the pains it entails.

dagw 4y ago
I get them for places like schools or environments where there is high risk of your laptop being stolen or damaged. If you lose or breaks one you can easily replace it with any random other Chromebook and be back up and running in minutes and it is basically impossible to 'break' the software on it (and if you do, resetting it is trivial).

samoit 4y ago

Instead of using a "free of spyware/crapware operating system" you use a crap laptop with low specs. But wait, its so useless that it has to emulate a real linux to do something usefull... and as nobody is developing "apps/webs" for "native" cromiumOS you also need another layer of emulation for android. Hummm, no thank you I will keep with my debian runing...

jmcnulty 4y ago
ChromeOS runs Debian in an LXD container. You can install desktop apps in it (e.g. using Flatpak) and they appear as launchable icons on the ChromeOS desktop. Being LXD you're not just limited to one container either. I have additional multiple containers with Ubuntu and AlmaLinux on my Chromebook and can use other LXD features to snapshot and publish them as required. This is far from being "useless".
- torginus 4y ago
  You can? I thought it ran on a totally nonstandard stack meaning no X, PulseAudio, systemd etc. How do regular Linux apps work? Is there some sort of compatibility layer?
- hulitu 4y ago
  Windows also runs Ubuntu. That's really not a good reason to use it

steve_john 4y ago

Chromebooks have come a long way since they were introduced in 2011. They can be 2-in-1s, run almost any app on the planet with Chrome Remote Desktop, play Chrome OS games, and run Google and Android apps like Skype, Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Assistant, WhatsApp, and many more

romwell 4y ago
> run almost any app on the planet with Chrome Remote Desktop You must be kidding, right? By that standard, my monitor can run any app in the world... as long as I plug it into a computer that runs it! Thin clients have been a thing for a while. They don't run apps. That's the point.
- panny 4y ago
  >You must be kidding, right? No, he's not. You can run Android applications on the device, they're not running remotely. You can also run Linux applications using Crostini, on the device. The real limitation I found with either of these approaches is that they are sandboxed in such a way as the apps are always hobbled. Android applications can only reach a sandboxed file system. Linux apps can't use GPU. Neither can read USB storage. Stuff like that. Some of those may be fixed now, but after trying for a couple of years, I eventually gave up on ChromeOS ever working as advertised in that regard. Running applications on ChromeOS is a sort of toy feature that might work, but if it doesn't, don't expect any attention in making it work, because you're the weirdo trying to run apps on ChromeOS.
  - romwell 4y ago
    I am specifically referring to this part: >run almost any app on the planet with Chrome Remote Desktop Sure, any device that can run RealVNC is capable of running "almost any app on the planet" then.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    On selected devices, usually more expensive than equivalent GNU/Linux or Windows laptops.

HeavenBanned 4y ago

There can be a serious argument made for getting chromebooks out to the 3rd/2nd world. Honestly, we don't _need_ to "do more" (as the article plainly points out) and can get people connected and productive in no time. Sure, it has its drawbacks (crapware/spyware/bloatware) but if that offsets the cost of production and profits then basically...why not?

panny 4y ago

I use a Chromebook. I don't use ChromeOS. I buy the loss leader hardware, install coreboot from mrchromebox.tech, then wipe the internal drive of ChromeOS and install Linux. I can get a higher spec mid-range laptop for a lower price. 8GB of RAM and an i5 is plenty for me.

dagw 4y ago
Is the hardware really that much of a loss leader? I just poked around a bit and found plenty of 8GB i5 Windows laptops selling for exactly the same price as equivalent ChromeOS laptops. And that isn't even taking the whole second hand market into account. You can pick up a very nice used X series Thinkpad for the same price as a new Chromebook.
smeej 4y ago
Same here. And because it's already designed for compatibility with the Linux kernel (because ChromeOS is Linux), it works so much better than most machines I've installed Linux on after Windows.
- stonogo 4y ago
  How often do you (and your parent poster) find yourself stuck with 'vendor kernels' on these machines a la arm devices? I've tried twice to rehabilitate Chromebooks; in the first instance I was stymied by lack of mainline support for the chipset involved, and in the second case there was no mainline support for the soldered-in broadcom wifi. Is this common, or is there a trick to avoiding buying encumbered hardware?
  - toast0 4y ago
    1) Be sure to buy things on the mrchromebox support list 2) Don't buy a chromeos device with an arm processor 3) Don't buy a chromeos device with an atom processor 4) Maybe don't buy one with an AMD processor, but I'm not sure?
biomcgary 4y ago
How reliable is the process of wiping ChromeOS and running Linux? I used crostini for awhile, but I was worried about bricking the laptop if I dumped ChromeOS completely.

turtlebits 4y ago

IMO, it's the cheap hardware which rules out Chromebooks for me. The Pixelbook is one my favorite laptops (barring the huge bezels and sub-par keyboard). Too bad the the Android experience is pretty bad, or else I'd still use it.

toastedwedge 4y ago

I hadn't initially considered a Chromebook until I found out about GalliumOS. Then I realized I could get a lightweight, cheap laptop, that also has fantastic battery life. I've tried putting both plain Arch and Debian on it, but the networking seems hit and miss. But that's alright because it's not my main machine. Makes a great auxiliary computer though!

zumu 4y ago
GalliumOS is awesome, but sadly dead development-wise AFAIK. The public repos haven't been touched since January 2021.

romwell 4y ago

When I started working at Google in 2018, I got a shiny new beefed-up Chromebook to work on. See, the idea was that I'll do Google work on Google equipment, using Google software (NIH was the religion there). Google's IDE, Cider, ran in Chrome; it integrated with version control and what not. Nobody on our team used Chromebooks - everybody got a Mac - but I thought I'll give it a go. Well it was a mistake. Having a computer that doesn't work as a computer is frustrating. Congratulations to everyone who can convince themselves they don't "need" things that computers do while using a computer. Yes, one can do a lot with a browser. But the list of things you can't do is immensely vaster. The compromise can make sense when you use a tablet or a phone, and have a specialized OS tailored to the use case. But Chromebooks are literally just laptop PCs. You get all the disadvantages of using a laptop (size, weight, etc), while getting all the disadvantages of trying to do things on a phone OS. It's a lose-lose scenario. The question here is not what the author can do with their Chromebooks, or why it works for them. The question is what someone could gain from using a Chromebook over a similarly-sized laptop running Windows/Linux/MacOS. The author claims it's "snappiness" - by comparing to Windows 10 running on absolute crap hardware. I'm not convinced, but I'll take their word. Of course, that doesn't apply if you buy non-crap, but slightly older hardware.

toast0 4y ago
> The question is what someone could gain from using a Chromebook over a similarly-sized laptop running Windows/Linux/MacOS. It's not foolproof, but these are good candidate devices for the terminally computer illiterate. Scam call centers aren't trained on ChromeOS takeovers as well as they are for Windows, but the user interface is close enough to Windows for users trained to use Windows. In case of large trouble, powerwash is easily accessible and fast. The ephemeral nature means replacing hardware doesn't require data transfer. The big downside is it's tied to a Google account, which means if you can't manage a Google account (because you like resetting your password instead of finding your password book, and writing the new password somewhere else you can't find, etc), you're going to end up with a Guest login account which is less functional.
- romwell 4y ago

wildrhythms 4y ago

I think all web designers and developers should use a Chromebook, especially a cheap one. Not necessarily to develop on, but to understand first-hand how their site is going to behave on devices that aren't some max-specced $4k Macbook with a IPS super high resolution display for once.

Dalewyn 4y ago
What do you mean I can't run my sixty dozen frameworks of JavaShit to real-time encode and render my MP4 disguised as a GIF so it can occupy 120% of the monitor before you get to read anything on my webpage?
mixmastamyk 4y ago
Raspberry pi 4 is good for that.
- 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
  Also, netbooks with Celeron N4020's and 4GB RAM soldered onto the motherboard without any ability to upgrade.
  - type0 4y ago
    I thought netbooks were dying breed, also there's an abundance of cheap NUC style PC for even cheaper.
    - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
      Not at all. They're not as hyped as they used to be, but 11" notebooks with low specs are definitely both cheap and available.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Raziarazzi 4y ago

Google did it to tighten up their fortified landscape experience for a subset of users, and in the process, messed with the general-purpose computer.

bdcravens 4y ago

> So we’ve been hearing “This will be the year of the Linux desktop” every year for at least a decade This has been a meme for longer than it was taken seriously.

LordHeini 4y ago

I got a smallish Chromebook which has a detachable keyboard so can be used as a Tablet as well (a Lenovo Duet). It is somewhat slow but cheap, lightweight and the battery holds forever. This thing is quite practical for surfing on the couch or writing the odd email while on vacation. I would never consider this for serious work but i really like it as a sort larger smartphone with a keyboard which can run Linux applications if need be. As a student i used one of those crappy Netbooks that thing was more expensive and (not considering the privacy issues of ChromeOs) way worse. Those Chromebooks are fine as sort of a more capable tablet which you use alongside a "proper" Desktop/Laptop.

type0 4y ago

Chromebook is not a good buy if you want a cheap Linux machine. Look at old thinkpad or NUC-kind of PC instead