4 ms·

The metroidvania inspirations are pretty clear, it's a large map that you unlock gradually by finding abilities on the map. Including some back-tracking. What

by Bigpet 4y ago

The metroidvania inspirations are pretty clear, it's a large map that you unlock gradually by finding abilities on the map. Including some back-tracking. What do you think is missing for it to be called a metroidvania?

daneel_w 4y ago
The graphics and scenery. It's 13 kilobytes of JavaScript with no bitmapped graphics in it, I know, but if we settle for (as an example) your two very broad strokes of running back and forth and unlocking new areas then hundreds of old NES and SNES games have suddenly become Metroidvania, despite nobody ever branding them as Metroidvania. I don't mean to come off as a retro-gaming connoisseur, but there's a certain feel and atmosphere to the Metroidvania branding - it's more than a sub-genre - and it shouldn't be taken lightly.
- Bigpet 4y ago
  Hm. I don't know if I'd consider atmosphere part of the genre. But it's missing boss fights which are a pretty core part of the genre I think. Which other NES or SNES games take place on one continuous map that you backtrack with new abilities to find a way to progress? Edit: that you wouldn't consider a metroidvania, I mean.
  - daneel_w 4y ago
    Zelda, Metal Gear, Wizardry, Faxanadu, Rygar, Ys, Mother/Earth Bound. The list goes on and on. The element of revisiting previous stages/locations to unlock portions you couldn't access earlier on was a basic ingredient of old adventure games.
    - hombre_fatal 4y ago
      Well, not so fast. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar -- genre: metroidvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxanadu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxanadu -- wiki categories include metroidvania. style: "like castlevania". The thing you're also missing is that a {castle,metroid}vania is a 2D side-scroller, so Zelda, Metal Gear, and friends are not. This kind of "umm actually" stuff is boring.
      - daneel_w 4y ago
        > https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar -- genre: metroidvania Spanish wikipedia, while English wikipedia says something else. Did you hunt with Google until you found some lone source citing it as "Metroidvania" just to try get a point across? > This kind of "umm actually" stuff is boring. Yet you dug deep into it.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        hombre_fatal 4y ago
        I live in a Spanish-speaking country, so Google defaults to Spanish Wikipedia. I forgot to change it to English like I did with my second link for the HN crowd. But you are incorrect yet again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar ctrl-f "Metroidvania" My point is that you create a lot of noise when your "corrections" aren't actually correct. It's basically nerd sniping to be wrong on the internet, especially about games. Yes, I'm contributing to the noise. But I'm correct, so it's okay according to unwritten HN guidelines.
        MRtecno98 4y ago
        > Did you hunt with Google until you found some lone source citing it as "Metroidvania" just to try get a point across? Or maybe he's just Spanish
        p1necone 4y ago
        In the spirit of "umm, ackshually", their username does start with "hombre"...
- kemayo 4y ago
  I'd say that, particularly in modern genre terms, "Metroidvania" refers to a game involving gathering abilities that unlock new areas, with either mandatory or optional-for-bonuses backtracking to previously blocked paths. (This is distinct from just flipping switches or finding keys -- you have to find things that change your character's moveset, and the new capabilities are what let you pass through.) Non-linearity and ability-acquisition are the only essential elements. There's often platforming, a certain isolation-vibe, and a large single map, but those aren't mandatory to get the label.
  - jsmith45 4y ago
    Admittedly, that definition as given leaves most Zelda games qualifying. You go around gain abilities, there are often optional rewards for backtracking and using those abilities. (BOTW is a pretty major exception here, and so are the NES zeldas). One notable difference is that there is rarely benefit to backtracking into previously completed dungeons. Even for 100% it is often possible to get everything with the first pass (without even using glitches or unintended interactions), which is not like most metroidvanias. However, most Zelda games but the games do tend to favor overwold backtracking for optional rewards.

by Bigpet 4y ago

daneel_w 4y ago

The graphics and scenery. It's 13 kilobytes of JavaScript with no bitmapped graphics in it, I know, but if we settle for (as an example) your two very broad strokes of running back and forth and unlocking new areas then hundreds of old NES and SNES games have suddenly become Metroidvania, despite nobody ever branding them as Metroidvania. I don't mean to come off as a retro-gaming connoisseur, but there's a certain feel and atmosphere to the Metroidvania branding - it's more than a sub-genre - and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

Bigpet 4y ago
Hm. I don't know if I'd consider atmosphere part of the genre. But it's missing boss fights which are a pretty core part of the genre I think. Which other NES or SNES games take place on one continuous map that you backtrack with new abilities to find a way to progress? Edit: that you wouldn't consider a metroidvania, I mean.
- daneel_w 4y ago
  Zelda, Metal Gear, Wizardry, Faxanadu, Rygar, Ys, Mother/Earth Bound. The list goes on and on. The element of revisiting previous stages/locations to unlock portions you couldn't access earlier on was a basic ingredient of old adventure games.
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    Well, not so fast. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar -- genre: metroidvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxanadu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faxanadu -- wiki categories include metroidvania. style: "like castlevania". The thing you're also missing is that a {castle,metroid}vania is a 2D side-scroller, so Zelda, Metal Gear, and friends are not. This kind of "umm actually" stuff is boring.
    - daneel_w 4y ago
      > https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar -- genre: metroidvania Spanish wikipedia, while English wikipedia says something else. Did you hunt with Google until you found some lone source citing it as "Metroidvania" just to try get a point across? > This kind of "umm actually" stuff is boring. Yet you dug deep into it.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - hombre_fatal 4y ago
        I live in a Spanish-speaking country, so Google defaults to Spanish Wikipedia. I forgot to change it to English like I did with my second link for the HN crowd. But you are incorrect yet again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rygar ctrl-f "Metroidvania" My point is that you create a lot of noise when your "corrections" aren't actually correct. It's basically nerd sniping to be wrong on the internet, especially about games. Yes, I'm contributing to the noise. But I'm correct, so it's okay according to unwritten HN guidelines.
      - MRtecno98 4y ago
        > Did you hunt with Google until you found some lone source citing it as "Metroidvania" just to try get a point across? Or maybe he's just Spanish
        p1necone 4y ago
        In the spirit of "umm, ackshually", their username does start with "hombre"...
kemayo 4y ago
I'd say that, particularly in modern genre terms, "Metroidvania" refers to a game involving gathering abilities that unlock new areas, with either mandatory or optional-for-bonuses backtracking to previously blocked paths. (This is distinct from just flipping switches or finding keys -- you have to find things that change your character's moveset, and the new capabilities are what let you pass through.) Non-linearity and ability-acquisition are the only essential elements. There's often platforming, a certain isolation-vibe, and a large single map, but those aren't mandatory to get the label.
- jsmith45 4y ago
  Admittedly, that definition as given leaves most Zelda games qualifying. You go around gain abilities, there are often optional rewards for backtracking and using those abilities. (BOTW is a pretty major exception here, and so are the NES zeldas). One notable difference is that there is rarely benefit to backtracking into previously completed dungeons. Even for 100% it is often possible to get everything with the first pass (without even using glitches or unintended interactions), which is not like most metroidvanias. However, most Zelda games but the games do tend to favor overwold backtracking for optional rewards.