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> its very easy to say that the current government in Ukraine is much more democratic than plenty of US Allies in other parts of the world, eg the Middle East.

> its very easy to say that the current government in Ukraine is much more democratic than plenty of US Allies in other parts of the world, eg the Middle East. What makes you think so? What was/is democratic about Ukraine? How Zelensky, for example, crushed all the opposition parties and media, and even arrested some of his opponents after he came to power? Do you know about that? BTW, here's the video of him before he became president: https://youtu.be/cAfXNbnXwxg https://youtu.be/cAfXNbnXwxg Hilarious, if you understand Russian. It's about so-called Ukrainian democracy. I'm pretty sure it won't exist for long on YouTube, and it won't be ever translated to English. > If this is so easy to find, why not provide actual sources? Would you be able to understand without translation? Who would translate it to you? Can you understand this, for example: https://youtu.be/ofEF5l72sjQ https://youtu.be/ofEF5l72sjQ > Edit: the irony here is the extremely close parallels between this war and hitter’s annexation of the sudentenland. There are no parallels. Except that Ukraine was pumped with nazi propaganda to the top. They named streets and stadiums after Nazi collaborators that helped Germany exterminate tens of thousands of Jews in Ukraine during WWII. If you look at almost any photo/video of Ukainian army personnel, they openly wear Nazi uniform, Nazi tattoos, SS insignia. They even use Nazi salute. It was especially easy to find before 24.02, they've become more careful since then, but still they fail many times to blur swastika or Hitler tattoo when filming their new propaganda videos. There're tons of videos like this: https://youtu.be/_eDjtPwC2wY https://youtu.be/_eDjtPwC2wY > US does bad things so other countries should do bad things too. More like, US does bad things and always gets away with it.

wbsss4412 4y ago
> How Zelensky, for example, crushed all the opposition parties and media, and even arrested some of his opponents after he came to power? Do you know about that? This has been covered in Western press: https://m.dw.com/en/ukraine-zelenskiy-bans-three-opposition-tv-stations/a-56438505 https://m.dw.com/en/ukraine-zelenskiy-bans-three-opposition-... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-president-defies-arrest-threat-showdown-with-successor-2022-01-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-presiden... However, I haven’t seen any thing that says _all_ opposition has been banned, do you have proof of this? > Would you be able to understand without translation? Who would translate it to you? I’d rather you post something than just make blanket statements with no basis. Unfortunately I can’t understand Russian/Ukrainian, but then again anything translated into English would be from western sources anyways. > I'm pretty sure it won't exist for long on YouTube, and it won't be ever translated to English Everything you posted has been up for years.
- anticodon 4y ago
  The big problem is that you, western people, especially people from USA, see the whole situation through the tiny keyhole where your media project whatever bias they want. You have no means of access to objective or balanced information. You can't read anything about Russia or Ukraine in the original uncensored form. You can't watch any video from Ukraine or Russia without it being carefully selected by somebody and then translated for you. E.g. you wouldn't be able to ponder when you see videos of Ukrainian soldiers being killed during combat, why seconds before dying they always speak in Russian, how that resonates with Joseph Brodsky poem last lines: https://russianuniverse.org/2017/02/27/joseph-brodsky-on-ukrainian-independence/ https://russianuniverse.org/2017/02/27/joseph-brodsky-on-ukr... And usually it's you, Western audience that makes blanket statements with no basis, uttering it so arrogantly as you know it all, where you actually know nothing.
  - wbsss4412 4y ago
    > You have no means of access to objective or balanced information. You can't read anything about Russia or Ukraine in the original uncensored form. Does anyone? I never was under any belief that I did. Excuse my understanding, but is it your assertion that there is unfettered access to uncensored information within Russia??
    - anticodon 4y ago
      > there is unfettered access to uncensored information within Russia?? Well, there is. Why do you think I have less possibilities to access information than you? Yes, some websites are blocked. A tiny minority of USA/EU funded propaganda horns like Meduza, that for years translate pretty obvious rusophobic messages. But I can read even them through VPN or through numerous other ways that CIA and NSA provide for free for such propaganda factories. A huge difference is that I can speak and read three languages. I can (and do) read US and European news in their native languages. I can read and do read from time to time social media like Reddit. I have friends and relatives in various countries of the world. People in US and EU have less possibilities. Does any significant proportion of population can read Russian? No. You are forced to read only tiny amount of information that is selected by somebody else and translated for you. Regarding Russia/Ukraine conflict there's even more. There's no separate Ukrainian nation. It's not genes, it's not anything else. Republic of Ukraine was created by Lenin and later was supported by Stalin who promoted "ukrainization" of eastern regions of Russia. We do not yet fully understand why they did it. We only see documents signed by Stalin, for example, "to intensify teaching of Ukranian in schools in universities" in this region. It's an irony, that they vilify and destroy monuments devoted to people that created their state. Also, I'm sure you never read about this and saw these documents translated anywhere in your media, because it would be pretty inconvenient truth. Anyway, because it was always Russia, there're millions of families split between Russia and Ukraine. We understand each other. Even Ukranian language is easy for us to understand - it's Russian grammar but some words are replaced with Polish equivalents. There was and is perpetual movement of people between Ukraine and Russia. My ancestors were living on Ukraine when there was no such state but it was a part of Russia. You cannot understand the history and relationship of Ukraine and Russia to the same extent as we do. You can't understand the Nazi propaganda in Russian and Ukranian that is all over the Internet, especially Russian/Ukranian parts. You're being told a very simple story: "Putin hates democracy and that's why it want to destroy the great democratic state of Ukraine and it's great democratic people!" and you have no other choice but to believe it. There's simply no other source of information for you. Nor would you ever be able to understand what people here feel and think about it, when US based agencies come to Ukraine, for example, and publish books like "Paladins of Hitler" and other rusophobic propaganda, that is either Nazi or entirely confabulated.
dnh44 4y ago
I didn't believe the Nazi claims that were being thrown around at first but I found these short documentaries on the BBC Newsnight YouTube channel a while back about the seemingly rather large Neo-Nazi influence in Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ

wbsss4412 4y ago

> How Zelensky, for example, crushed all the opposition parties and media, and even arrested some of his opponents after he came to power? Do you know about that? This has been covered in Western press: https://m.dw.com/en/ukraine-zelenskiy-bans-three-opposition-tv-stations/a-56438505 https://m.dw.com/en/ukraine-zelenskiy-bans-three-opposition-... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-president-defies-arrest-threat-showdown-with-successor-2022-01-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/former-ukraine-presiden... However, I haven’t seen any thing that says _all_ opposition has been banned, do you have proof of this? > Would you be able to understand without translation? Who would translate it to you? I’d rather you post something than just make blanket statements with no basis. Unfortunately I can’t understand Russian/Ukrainian, but then again anything translated into English would be from western sources anyways. > I'm pretty sure it won't exist for long on YouTube, and it won't be ever translated to English Everything you posted has been up for years.

anticodon 4y ago
The big problem is that you, western people, especially people from USA, see the whole situation through the tiny keyhole where your media project whatever bias they want. You have no means of access to objective or balanced information. You can't read anything about Russia or Ukraine in the original uncensored form. You can't watch any video from Ukraine or Russia without it being carefully selected by somebody and then translated for you. E.g. you wouldn't be able to ponder when you see videos of Ukrainian soldiers being killed during combat, why seconds before dying they always speak in Russian, how that resonates with Joseph Brodsky poem last lines: https://russianuniverse.org/2017/02/27/joseph-brodsky-on-ukrainian-independence/ https://russianuniverse.org/2017/02/27/joseph-brodsky-on-ukr... And usually it's you, Western audience that makes blanket statements with no basis, uttering it so arrogantly as you know it all, where you actually know nothing.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  > You have no means of access to objective or balanced information. You can't read anything about Russia or Ukraine in the original uncensored form. Does anyone? I never was under any belief that I did. Excuse my understanding, but is it your assertion that there is unfettered access to uncensored information within Russia??
  - anticodon 4y ago
    > there is unfettered access to uncensored information within Russia?? Well, there is. Why do you think I have less possibilities to access information than you? Yes, some websites are blocked. A tiny minority of USA/EU funded propaganda horns like Meduza, that for years translate pretty obvious rusophobic messages. But I can read even them through VPN or through numerous other ways that CIA and NSA provide for free for such propaganda factories. A huge difference is that I can speak and read three languages. I can (and do) read US and European news in their native languages. I can read and do read from time to time social media like Reddit. I have friends and relatives in various countries of the world. People in US and EU have less possibilities. Does any significant proportion of population can read Russian? No. You are forced to read only tiny amount of information that is selected by somebody else and translated for you. Regarding Russia/Ukraine conflict there's even more. There's no separate Ukrainian nation. It's not genes, it's not anything else. Republic of Ukraine was created by Lenin and later was supported by Stalin who promoted "ukrainization" of eastern regions of Russia. We do not yet fully understand why they did it. We only see documents signed by Stalin, for example, "to intensify teaching of Ukranian in schools in universities" in this region. It's an irony, that they vilify and destroy monuments devoted to people that created their state. Also, I'm sure you never read about this and saw these documents translated anywhere in your media, because it would be pretty inconvenient truth. Anyway, because it was always Russia, there're millions of families split between Russia and Ukraine. We understand each other. Even Ukranian language is easy for us to understand - it's Russian grammar but some words are replaced with Polish equivalents. There was and is perpetual movement of people between Ukraine and Russia. My ancestors were living on Ukraine when there was no such state but it was a part of Russia. You cannot understand the history and relationship of Ukraine and Russia to the same extent as we do. You can't understand the Nazi propaganda in Russian and Ukranian that is all over the Internet, especially Russian/Ukranian parts. You're being told a very simple story: "Putin hates democracy and that's why it want to destroy the great democratic state of Ukraine and it's great democratic people!" and you have no other choice but to believe it. There's simply no other source of information for you. Nor would you ever be able to understand what people here feel and think about it, when US based agencies come to Ukraine, for example, and publish books like "Paladins of Hitler" and other rusophobic propaganda, that is either Nazi or entirely confabulated.

dnh44 4y ago

I didn't believe the Nazi claims that were being thrown around at first but I found these short documentaries on the BBC Newsnight YouTube channel a while back about the seemingly rather large Neo-Nazi influence in Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6b4ao8gAQ