8 ms·

They say there's 3 months of pay, healthcare, mental care until the end of the year too. And they contracted a placement company to hook people up with new jobs

They say there's 3 months of pay, healthcare, mental care until the end of the year too. And they contracted a placement company to hook people up with new jobs.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Decency demonstrated, and hopefully recognized at large regardless of the criticisms of the business strategy and execution.
- unity1001 4y ago
  I agree. Tech companies should never really break off with former employees. Any former employee is a future potential employee that you can re-recruit when the time comes. Also, talent is difficult to find. Which makes people the center. Whatever you build, you will build it with people. So you need people. Be them new employees, be them former employees.
  - cafed00d 4y ago
    > Any former employee is a future potential employee that you can re-recruit when the time comes Not only that, all former employees are de-facto "background check references" / "evagenlists" / "detractors" of your company. Forever! (well, not exactly forever... but close enough) I can't recall a single year over the last 10 years where younger engineers, cousins, nephews or friends have asked me about the 2 companies I worked at before. And boy, have I been candid. Talked a very good friend of mine from joining Amazon for an offer he got making nearly 3 times much I did. All because of "decency" (or lack thereof) of a company.
    - treis 4y ago
      >friends have asked me Is this supposed to be haven't?
      - cafed00d 4y ago
        Whoops! Yes, you're right. Thanks! Wish I could edit it now.
    - smm11 4y ago
      Seems Amazon needs to be careful about this, too. https://retailwire.com/discussion/there-might-soon-be-no-one-left-to-work-at-amazon/ https://retailwire.com/discussion/there-might-soon-be-no-one...
      - chihuahua 4y ago
        Amazon has really developed "not giving a shit" into an art form. They even still have the cliff vesting of RSUs, which is their way of telling new hires "we don't expect you to stay for more than 2 years"
    - water-your-self 4y ago
      Would love to hear your take on Amazon.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    Even more importantly, they are evangelists for other future employees. I actually went out of my way to make it easy for my employees to quit. If they didn't want to stay, then I sincerely wished them well. The company limited what I could do, but I did my best, and it seemed to work out.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Agreed, its not ideal but there are things a company can do to put their money where there mouth is in this situation. This seems to be the new playback for doing it right. I appreciate that.
- jzb 4y ago
  I had some unkind feelings about Patreon when it was announced / made public that they laid off their entire security team. I still think that was a poor move and any company responsible for handling payments ought to have an in-house security team. That said - I've held off on any criticisms around their strategy/execution for the moment (aside from that) since it's unclear what happened. I'm wondering if Patreon is getting hit with lots of people backing off support of artists after a big jump due to the pandemic. Given inflation and a lot of feelings of uncertainty around the economy, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that their revenue went way down in a hurry this year. I back four artists on Patreon, down from five a year ago. In all 4 cases I'm either too busy to get full "value" out of sponsoring (e.g., I don't have time to read the updates or listen to all the demos), or there's not really any benefit other than funneling money to support the artist in hopes they'll continue working as an artist. Each month I look at the bill from Patreon and wonder "do I really need to keep spending this money?" So far I've elected to - but I haven't been hit super hard by inflation or a layoff like many folks...
  - unity1001 4y ago
    They didn't lay off their entire security team. What one person among the laid off ones thought to be 'security team' may not overlap with what their company had been doing since a long time. In startups, its not uncommon to have engineers who have been handling various responsibilities, including security (especially early employees).
    - Kalium 4y ago
      > In startups, its not uncommon to have engineers who have been handling various responsibilities, including security (especially early employees). You're right! That said, by the time a company is large enough that 17% of it is more than 17 people the kind of startup organization you have wisely and correctly nodded to will have ceased to exist. So while you are right in that such scenarios have, do, and will continue to happen there's perhaps cause to wonder if that's really the best way to characterize replacing a security organization with specialists with a bunch of engineers who are likely quarter-time security at best. It's akin to firing all your engineers because the sales people can do a little bit of coding each.
staunch 4y ago
This is exactly how to handle a layoff: do it 3-6 months earlier than required and give the laid off employees that money as severance. Waving the equity cliff too is very generous and good of them. Everyone should note the companies that do brutal layoffs with little/no severance. It's a major red flag because it shows incompetence and/or a lack of ethics.
fckgw 4y ago
Some of this is because of the WARN Act in California [0], which requires 60-day notice before any mass layoff. Employers can also fulfill the requirements of this mandate by letting employees go now but having their actual termination date 60+ days in advance. I've been survived a few layoffs that work this way. Good for Patreon to go beyond the 60-day mandated period though [0] https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  > I've been survived a few layoffs that work this way. How many times have you been laid off?!
  - jrockway 4y ago
    There are probably a large number of HN readers that have weathered the dotcom bust, the 2008 financial crisis, and the 2022 financial crisis. If you were born 1980-ish and you haven't been laid off 3 times, congrats!
    - michaelcampbell 4y ago
      I was born mid 1960's-ish and have lucked out; only laid off once. But I well remember all of those crises.
    - gabereiser 4y ago
      This, I've been laid off about 6 times, only once because of my own accord (and I freely admit my fault there). I've left a company 2x that count. I started my career in 1999. What a year to start...
      - dahfizz 4y ago
        In 23 years you have worked at 18 companies? Has this hurt you during interviews?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 4y ago
Isn’t 3 months a pretty standard severance compensation?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  If not, I've had a lot of incredibly decent employers in the past. They all seem to do two or three months. I know of layoffs where people have gotten significantly more, though.
viridian 4y ago
I don't like a lot of their business decisions (I know much of this is driven by credit card/payment processors) but this is the most respectable mass layoff I've ever seen from a company, and should be lauded.

They say there's 3 months of pay, healthcare, mental care until the end of the year too. And they contracted a placement company to hook people up with new jobs.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Decency demonstrated, and hopefully recognized at large regardless of the criticisms of the business strategy and execution.

unity1001 4y ago
I agree. Tech companies should never really break off with former employees. Any former employee is a future potential employee that you can re-recruit when the time comes. Also, talent is difficult to find. Which makes people the center. Whatever you build, you will build it with people. So you need people. Be them new employees, be them former employees.
- cafed00d 4y ago
  > Any former employee is a future potential employee that you can re-recruit when the time comes Not only that, all former employees are de-facto "background check references" / "evagenlists" / "detractors" of your company. Forever! (well, not exactly forever... but close enough) I can't recall a single year over the last 10 years where younger engineers, cousins, nephews or friends have asked me about the 2 companies I worked at before. And boy, have I been candid. Talked a very good friend of mine from joining Amazon for an offer he got making nearly 3 times much I did. All because of "decency" (or lack thereof) of a company.
  - treis 4y ago
    >friends have asked me Is this supposed to be haven't?
    - cafed00d 4y ago
      Whoops! Yes, you're right. Thanks! Wish I could edit it now.
  - smm11 4y ago
    Seems Amazon needs to be careful about this, too. https://retailwire.com/discussion/there-might-soon-be-no-one-left-to-work-at-amazon/ https://retailwire.com/discussion/there-might-soon-be-no-one...
    - chihuahua 4y ago
      Amazon has really developed "not giving a shit" into an art form. They even still have the cliff vesting of RSUs, which is their way of telling new hires "we don't expect you to stay for more than 2 years"
  - water-your-self 4y ago
    Would love to hear your take on Amazon.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  Even more importantly, they are evangelists for other future employees. I actually went out of my way to make it easy for my employees to quit. If they didn't want to stay, then I sincerely wished them well. The company limited what I could do, but I did my best, and it seemed to work out.
iancmceachern 4y ago
Agreed, its not ideal but there are things a company can do to put their money where there mouth is in this situation. This seems to be the new playback for doing it right. I appreciate that.
jzb 4y ago
I had some unkind feelings about Patreon when it was announced / made public that they laid off their entire security team. I still think that was a poor move and any company responsible for handling payments ought to have an in-house security team. That said - I've held off on any criticisms around their strategy/execution for the moment (aside from that) since it's unclear what happened. I'm wondering if Patreon is getting hit with lots of people backing off support of artists after a big jump due to the pandemic. Given inflation and a lot of feelings of uncertainty around the economy, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that their revenue went way down in a hurry this year. I back four artists on Patreon, down from five a year ago. In all 4 cases I'm either too busy to get full "value" out of sponsoring (e.g., I don't have time to read the updates or listen to all the demos), or there's not really any benefit other than funneling money to support the artist in hopes they'll continue working as an artist. Each month I look at the bill from Patreon and wonder "do I really need to keep spending this money?" So far I've elected to - but I haven't been hit super hard by inflation or a layoff like many folks...
- unity1001 4y ago
  They didn't lay off their entire security team. What one person among the laid off ones thought to be 'security team' may not overlap with what their company had been doing since a long time. In startups, its not uncommon to have engineers who have been handling various responsibilities, including security (especially early employees).
  - Kalium 4y ago
    > In startups, its not uncommon to have engineers who have been handling various responsibilities, including security (especially early employees). You're right! That said, by the time a company is large enough that 17% of it is more than 17 people the kind of startup organization you have wisely and correctly nodded to will have ceased to exist. So while you are right in that such scenarios have, do, and will continue to happen there's perhaps cause to wonder if that's really the best way to characterize replacing a security organization with specialists with a bunch of engineers who are likely quarter-time security at best. It's akin to firing all your engineers because the sales people can do a little bit of coding each.

staunch 4y ago

This is exactly how to handle a layoff: do it 3-6 months earlier than required and give the laid off employees that money as severance. Waving the equity cliff too is very generous and good of them. Everyone should note the companies that do brutal layoffs with little/no severance. It's a major red flag because it shows incompetence and/or a lack of ethics.

fckgw 4y ago

Some of this is because of the WARN Act in California [0], which requires 60-day notice before any mass layoff. Employers can also fulfill the requirements of this mandate by letting employees go now but having their actual termination date 60+ days in advance. I've been survived a few layoffs that work this way. Good for Patreon to go beyond the 60-day mandated period though [0] https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN https://edd.ca.gov/en/Jobs_and_Training/Layoff_Services_WARN

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> I've been survived a few layoffs that work this way. How many times have you been laid off?!
- jrockway 4y ago
  There are probably a large number of HN readers that have weathered the dotcom bust, the 2008 financial crisis, and the 2022 financial crisis. If you were born 1980-ish and you haven't been laid off 3 times, congrats!
  - michaelcampbell 4y ago
    I was born mid 1960's-ish and have lucked out; only laid off once. But I well remember all of those crises.
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    This, I've been laid off about 6 times, only once because of my own accord (and I freely admit my fault there). I've left a company 2x that count. I started my career in 1999. What a year to start...
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      In 23 years you have worked at 18 companies? Has this hurt you during interviews?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

chrisseaton 4y ago

Isn’t 3 months a pretty standard severance compensation?

pessimizer 4y ago
If not, I've had a lot of incredibly decent employers in the past. They all seem to do two or three months. I know of layoffs where people have gotten significantly more, though.

viridian 4y ago

I don't like a lot of their business decisions (I know much of this is driven by credit card/payment processors) but this is the most respectable mass layoff I've ever seen from a company, and should be lauded.