5 ms·

Nobody looks like they are going to lose their livelihood over this: https://blog.patreon.com/a-note-from-jack https://blog.patreon.com/a-note-from-jack 3 mon

Nobody looks like they are going to lose their livelihood over this: https://blog.patreon.com/a-note-from-jack https://blog.patreon.com/a-note-from-jack 3 months' of pay + longer depending on tenure at the company. Healthcare until the end of the year. Mental care up to 6 months. They contracted a placement company to place the laid off staff to other companies in the sector. A lot of those people will already get hooked up by a company within a week or so, even without the placement company being able to take action. This looks as decent as layoffs go.

backspace_ 4y ago
Why was an Instagram post shared instead of the blog post on patreon?
- unity1001 4y ago
  That's the choice of the person who posted the Instagram post at HN instead of the actual blog post that was posted before the Instagram post, obviously.
awb 4y ago
> Nobody looks like they are going to lose their livelihood over this We don’t know everyone’s unique situation, even if they did go beyond what most companies do.
- nomel 4y ago
  No. That's not the social contract for employment. It's dangerous to think it is. There's a mutual need from both parties. When that need changes, both parties are free to respond. Forcing a company to keep someone would be just as bad as forcing someone to stay. What we also don't know is the companies financial situation. Keeping people on when they can't be afforded can be a way to make a company completely collapse. I was in two startups that would have collapsed completely, without layoffs, around the time of the last recession. This is why the "keep x months of salary" are rules you strictly follow.
  - mrtranscendence 4y ago
    What are you responding to, exactly? That comment was claiming that we can't know for sure that "nobody" would lose their livelihood over this. And it's true, we can't know.
    - jwagenet 4y ago
      I think they are responding to the assertion that the employer is obligated to keep the employee just because the employee might have absolutely nowhere else to go. Especially in the competitive tech space neither you nor your employer are obligated to maintain your employment relationship. This is besides Patreon giving their former employees a license to goof off on their dime for 3 months. I can’t imagine anyone at Patreon being so hard up that 3 months pay and insurance to look for new work is enough to break the camels back.
  - etchalon 4y ago
    There's a difference between "someone will lose their livelihood because of this" and "that's entirely the employers fault." Recognizing the impact of an action does not mean you're entirely responsible for it.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > We don’t know everyone’s unique situation Those who are hired to Patreon and similar companies arent people who would end up unemployed if they are laid off. Those people already have to turn down recruiters who try to poach them every week.
MisterBastahrd 4y ago
Mid-November through December is a hiring no-man's land due to the accumulation of end-of-year vacations and family trips. Most of these employees have about a month and a half before the shutdown begins and they are stuck scrambling to try to find work in the new year.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Recruiters would fill that gap readily enough.
  - MisterBastahrd 4y ago
    My comment comes directly from my experience in the past as a recruiter. We saw a 60%+ downturn in the hiring market From Nov 15 - Dec 31 regardless of how the hiring market was performing in general, and then they would spring back to life after Jan 1 when everyone was back in the office. It takes more than a hiring manager to hire employees. The slowdown comes from all the moving parts who need to be in place in order to facilitate the transition of an employee to an org. Think of your average tech hire who needs to (a) go through orientation just like everyone else, and (b) is going to take a week or two just to get his work environment and credentialing set up so he can work with the servers. I'll put my experience on that side of the desk working with dozens of clients against any anecdotal one-offs who got hired late in the year.
    - taylodl 4y ago
      You speak the truth. Any recruiter with any experience at all will tell you hiring plunges late in the 4th quarter. It's been that way forever. There does tend to be an uptick in interviewing starting late in the 3rd quarter and early on in the 4th (i.e. now) so they can get the people they need in place for the start of the new year and next year's budget. Hopefully these folks will be able to take advantage of that and if they can't start immediately at least be ready to go at the end of the holidays, and if they've been paid through the end of the year then they can at least enjoy the holidays.
    - lowercased 4y ago

backspace_ 4y ago

Why was an Instagram post shared instead of the blog post on patreon?

unity1001 4y ago
That's the choice of the person who posted the Instagram post at HN instead of the actual blog post that was posted before the Instagram post, obviously.

awb 4y ago

> Nobody looks like they are going to lose their livelihood over this We don’t know everyone’s unique situation, even if they did go beyond what most companies do.

nomel 4y ago
No. That's not the social contract for employment. It's dangerous to think it is. There's a mutual need from both parties. When that need changes, both parties are free to respond. Forcing a company to keep someone would be just as bad as forcing someone to stay. What we also don't know is the companies financial situation. Keeping people on when they can't be afforded can be a way to make a company completely collapse. I was in two startups that would have collapsed completely, without layoffs, around the time of the last recession. This is why the "keep x months of salary" are rules you strictly follow.
- mrtranscendence 4y ago
  What are you responding to, exactly? That comment was claiming that we can't know for sure that "nobody" would lose their livelihood over this. And it's true, we can't know.
  - jwagenet 4y ago
    I think they are responding to the assertion that the employer is obligated to keep the employee just because the employee might have absolutely nowhere else to go. Especially in the competitive tech space neither you nor your employer are obligated to maintain your employment relationship. This is besides Patreon giving their former employees a license to goof off on their dime for 3 months. I can’t imagine anyone at Patreon being so hard up that 3 months pay and insurance to look for new work is enough to break the camels back.
- etchalon 4y ago
  There's a difference between "someone will lose their livelihood because of this" and "that's entirely the employers fault." Recognizing the impact of an action does not mean you're entirely responsible for it.
unity1001 4y ago
> We don’t know everyone’s unique situation Those who are hired to Patreon and similar companies arent people who would end up unemployed if they are laid off. Those people already have to turn down recruiters who try to poach them every week.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago

Mid-November through December is a hiring no-man's land due to the accumulation of end-of-year vacations and family trips. Most of these employees have about a month and a half before the shutdown begins and they are stuck scrambling to try to find work in the new year.

unity1001 4y ago
Recruiters would fill that gap readily enough.
- MisterBastahrd 4y ago
  My comment comes directly from my experience in the past as a recruiter. We saw a 60%+ downturn in the hiring market From Nov 15 - Dec 31 regardless of how the hiring market was performing in general, and then they would spring back to life after Jan 1 when everyone was back in the office. It takes more than a hiring manager to hire employees. The slowdown comes from all the moving parts who need to be in place in order to facilitate the transition of an employee to an org. Think of your average tech hire who needs to (a) go through orientation just like everyone else, and (b) is going to take a week or two just to get his work environment and credentialing set up so he can work with the servers. I'll put my experience on that side of the desk working with dozens of clients against any anecdotal one-offs who got hired late in the year.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    You speak the truth. Any recruiter with any experience at all will tell you hiring plunges late in the 4th quarter. It's been that way forever. There does tend to be an uptick in interviewing starting late in the 3rd quarter and early on in the 4th (i.e. now) so they can get the people they need in place for the start of the new year and next year's budget. Hopefully these folks will be able to take advantage of that and if they can't start immediately at least be ready to go at the end of the holidays, and if they've been paid through the end of the year then they can at least enjoy the holidays.
  - lowercased 4y ago