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Your quoting suggests that you think what people on onlyfans and patreon do aren't "real jobs", but in fact to succeed in those spaces needs very hard work.

by bo0tzz 4y ago

acheron 4y ago
Digging a big hole then filling it back in is "very hard work" too but that doesn't make it a real job.
- garmanarnar 4y ago
  Construction companies would like a word with you.
- lovich 4y ago
  What, pray tell, qualifies a job as a "real" job?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I'd say something like people are actually willing to pay the average or even the worst job-doer something resembling a living wage. If the stats from things like Patreon are to believed (and filtering out the "dead weight" of creators who don't post or have given up without closing their account) there's a serious "top 1% of creators make XX% of the revenue" problem. Which means that for a small fraction, it's a job, for the vast majority it's a money-losing hobby.
    - freeone3000 4y ago
      By that definition, real jobs are doctor, dentist, and software developer. We don't pay the worst in most jobs anything more than the legal minimum.
      - CobrastanJorji 4y ago
        Yeah, "adds value to the world," "works hard," and "pays well" are radically different metrics.
    - lovich 4y ago
      Do you not believe working in retail or restaurants are real jobs? Because the vast majority of them are not paid a living wage in the US and have to rely on having multiple jobs or welfare. Walmart even teaches you how to sign up for welfare as an employee
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Those are real jobs and should be paid a living wage or eliminated if that's entirely unfeasible. There can be arguments at the edges but I think people generally agree on that. And even if you don't, certainly an "industry" where 99% of the people "employed" don't even make the poverty line or make back their expenses (patreon and only fans would fall here) wouldn't. (The people trying to 'make it big' are probably moonlighting as retail/restuarant anyway, just as all those who tried to make it in Hollywood did in years past). There's certainly major abuses but the 1099 and "self employed" world is even more full of them than the W4 world.
  - panzagl 4y ago
    Oh, you know, Javascript Ninja, Devops Rockstar, a real job. /s
- woodruffw 4y ago
  And yet, the Hoover Dam was a job very well done.
- rafale 4y ago
  It's not a real job because nobody will pay you for that because nobody gets value from that. You get paid by people = you provide value in the economic sense (do not always align with the moral or ethical sense, which might be the source of your dislike for the job).
behnamoh 4y ago
> but in fact to succeed in those spaces needs very hard work. But that doesn't make it a job. You could do hard work in moving a mountain but that's not a job. Needless to say, earning money off of your looks (something you didn't work hard to gain in the first place) doesn't qualify as hard-working job.
- Scarjit 4y ago
  If you get paid moving that mountain, it would be a job.
- eganist 4y ago
  > But that doesn't make it a job. You could do hard work in moving a mountain but that's not a job. Job (n): 1. a paid position of regular employment. 2. a task or piece of work, especially one that is paid. --- It seems to fit #2 perfectly (exhibiting to an audience), and #1 can be met based on e.g corporate structure (subscription pay into an LLC that normalizes the salary etc) I'd argue that it's in fact potentially "skilled labor" in that it's not obvious what it takes to produce content that brings regular subscribers. Tons of adult content creators burn out and pivot because they can't get traction.
- skyyler 4y ago
  >Needless to say, earning money off of your looks (something you didn't work hard to gain in the first place) doesn't qualify as hard-working job. Even if you're very conventionally attractive, you need to put in a lot of networking and marketing before you can make money off of "your looks". Even then, you don't just sit back and let your looks do everything. Porn stars generally spend a couple hours DAILY in the gym. Then there's all of the events you have to do to remain relevant in social circles. Then there's actual shooting. But before that there's hair and makeup. Then there's outfits. Selecting garments that match your personal style and also are sexy enough to excite your fans isn't easy and it usually isn't cheap. Going through all of that to get paid by the fans is absolutely a job. If the fans didn't pay, it wouldn't be a job.
- ranma4703 4y ago
  It takes a LOT of work to "earn a living off your looks" Ignoring the time spent setting up shoots, editing, engagement, etc, and focusing just on "looks", you have to spend a lot of time on working out, make up, shaving, putting together outfits, etc. If you think that looking good is something that doesn't take any hard work, it's because you've never tried to put in that work yourself.
lmm 4y ago
Hard work alone doesn't make something a job. If someone was offering a professional level of service (delivering what they said they would, on time, and issuing refunds when they didn't without their clients having to ask for it) then I'd say they were doing a "real job". Most of onlyfans/patreon aren't, IME.

Your quoting suggests that you think what people on onlyfans and patreon do aren't "real jobs", but in fact to succeed in those spaces needs very hard work.

by bo0tzz 4y ago

Your quoting suggests that you think what people on onlyfans and patreon do aren't "real jobs", but in fact to succeed in those spaces needs very hard work.

acheron 4y ago

Digging a big hole then filling it back in is "very hard work" too but that doesn't make it a real job.

garmanarnar 4y ago
Construction companies would like a word with you.
lovich 4y ago
What, pray tell, qualifies a job as a "real" job?
- bombcar 4y ago
  I'd say something like people are actually willing to pay the average or even the worst job-doer something resembling a living wage. If the stats from things like Patreon are to believed (and filtering out the "dead weight" of creators who don't post or have given up without closing their account) there's a serious "top 1% of creators make XX% of the revenue" problem. Which means that for a small fraction, it's a job, for the vast majority it's a money-losing hobby.
  - freeone3000 4y ago
    By that definition, real jobs are doctor, dentist, and software developer. We don't pay the worst in most jobs anything more than the legal minimum.
    - CobrastanJorji 4y ago
      Yeah, "adds value to the world," "works hard," and "pays well" are radically different metrics.
  - lovich 4y ago
    Do you not believe working in retail or restaurants are real jobs? Because the vast majority of them are not paid a living wage in the US and have to rely on having multiple jobs or welfare. Walmart even teaches you how to sign up for welfare as an employee
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Those are real jobs and should be paid a living wage or eliminated if that's entirely unfeasible. There can be arguments at the edges but I think people generally agree on that. And even if you don't, certainly an "industry" where 99% of the people "employed" don't even make the poverty line or make back their expenses (patreon and only fans would fall here) wouldn't. (The people trying to 'make it big' are probably moonlighting as retail/restuarant anyway, just as all those who tried to make it in Hollywood did in years past). There's certainly major abuses but the 1099 and "self employed" world is even more full of them than the W4 world.
- panzagl 4y ago
  Oh, you know, Javascript Ninja, Devops Rockstar, a real job. /s
woodruffw 4y ago
And yet, the Hoover Dam was a job very well done.
rafale 4y ago
It's not a real job because nobody will pay you for that because nobody gets value from that. You get paid by people = you provide value in the economic sense (do not always align with the moral or ethical sense, which might be the source of your dislike for the job).

behnamoh 4y ago

> but in fact to succeed in those spaces needs very hard work. But that doesn't make it a job. You could do hard work in moving a mountain but that's not a job. Needless to say, earning money off of your looks (something you didn't work hard to gain in the first place) doesn't qualify as hard-working job.

Scarjit 4y ago
If you get paid moving that mountain, it would be a job.
eganist 4y ago
> But that doesn't make it a job. You could do hard work in moving a mountain but that's not a job. Job (n): 1. a paid position of regular employment. 2. a task or piece of work, especially one that is paid. --- It seems to fit #2 perfectly (exhibiting to an audience), and #1 can be met based on e.g corporate structure (subscription pay into an LLC that normalizes the salary etc) I'd argue that it's in fact potentially "skilled labor" in that it's not obvious what it takes to produce content that brings regular subscribers. Tons of adult content creators burn out and pivot because they can't get traction.
skyyler 4y ago
>Needless to say, earning money off of your looks (something you didn't work hard to gain in the first place) doesn't qualify as hard-working job. Even if you're very conventionally attractive, you need to put in a lot of networking and marketing before you can make money off of "your looks". Even then, you don't just sit back and let your looks do everything. Porn stars generally spend a couple hours DAILY in the gym. Then there's all of the events you have to do to remain relevant in social circles. Then there's actual shooting. But before that there's hair and makeup. Then there's outfits. Selecting garments that match your personal style and also are sexy enough to excite your fans isn't easy and it usually isn't cheap. Going through all of that to get paid by the fans is absolutely a job. If the fans didn't pay, it wouldn't be a job.
ranma4703 4y ago
It takes a LOT of work to "earn a living off your looks" Ignoring the time spent setting up shoots, editing, engagement, etc, and focusing just on "looks", you have to spend a lot of time on working out, make up, shaving, putting together outfits, etc. If you think that looking good is something that doesn't take any hard work, it's because you've never tried to put in that work yourself.

lmm 4y ago

Hard work alone doesn't make something a job. If someone was offering a professional level of service (delivering what they said they would, on time, and issuing refunds when they didn't without their clients having to ask for it) then I'd say they were doing a "real job". Most of onlyfans/patreon aren't, IME.