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It was described as a propaganda network capable of controlling the narrative. It is a matter of degree, but you keep insisting it's a matter of category. If

It was described as a propaganda network capable of controlling the narrative. It is a matter of degree, but you keep insisting it's a matter of category. If the CCP uses networks of bots to amplify pro-CCP stories and viewpoints on Twitter, then that's "different" (to answer your original question) in an extremely important way to if someone pushed those views on their own small blog. It's different because the scale and impact is different. Also, both of those things belong, to some extent, to the category of "propaganda network capable of controlling the narrative". But one belongs to it more, and one is more of an issue, because the world isn't binary.

nkozyra 4y ago
> It was described as a propaganda network capable of controlling the narrative. No, you added the second part. That could indeed bolster the argument, but it wasn't made in the initial claim. If scope is the tipping point - which appears to be your argument here with regard to degree - recall my initial question was about the threshold. Which is conveniently what you're saying we should ignore because it's unimportant. So which is it? I contend that one of the core tenets of "propaganda" is that there needs to be a deliberate and centralized. It's easy to call something propaganda but it's much harder to defend that claim.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  There is no tipping point. The premise of a tipping point means you're still thinking about category instead of degree. Also, when we say degree, we don't mean the degree to which the definition fits. That's a boring discussion. We simply mean the degree to which it's a problem. Twitter, to the extent that it's being used as a propaganda network by CCP bots, which it is, is a big problem for us. A small blog being used for propaganda... not such a big problem. That's the difference that you're missing. The scale and scope is different. Therefore the extent to which they're important is different.
  - nkozyra 4y ago
    > There is no tipping point. The premise of a tipping point means you're still thinking about category instead of degree. Quite the opposite. I've asked about degree the entire time. "Opinion" does not mean the same thing as "Propaganda," but the scale of the former could transform it into the latter. What's the degree here? That's what I'm asking. > That's a boring discussion. This is dismissive. If you want to discuss things in good faith, please avoid language like this. You're refusing to engage with an aspect of my reply - and that's fine - but don't pretend my thought are meaningless or boring as a response.
    - hackerlight 4y ago
      Of course opinion != propaganda. What is propaganda is a CCP bot network on Twitter. I'm ending this convo here. It's become a tedious debate about semantics and nothing productive is being achieved.
      - nkozyra 4y ago
        You entered a conversation and started calling my points boring and meaningless; I don't sense you were looking for productive conversation from the get-go.

nkozyra 4y ago

> It was described as a propaganda network capable of controlling the narrative. No, you added the second part. That could indeed bolster the argument, but it wasn't made in the initial claim. If scope is the tipping point - which appears to be your argument here with regard to degree - recall my initial question was about the threshold. Which is conveniently what you're saying we should ignore because it's unimportant. So which is it? I contend that one of the core tenets of "propaganda" is that there needs to be a deliberate and centralized. It's easy to call something propaganda but it's much harder to defend that claim.

hackerlight 4y ago
There is no tipping point. The premise of a tipping point means you're still thinking about category instead of degree. Also, when we say degree, we don't mean the degree to which the definition fits. That's a boring discussion. We simply mean the degree to which it's a problem. Twitter, to the extent that it's being used as a propaganda network by CCP bots, which it is, is a big problem for us. A small blog being used for propaganda... not such a big problem. That's the difference that you're missing. The scale and scope is different. Therefore the extent to which they're important is different.
- nkozyra 4y ago
  > There is no tipping point. The premise of a tipping point means you're still thinking about category instead of degree. Quite the opposite. I've asked about degree the entire time. "Opinion" does not mean the same thing as "Propaganda," but the scale of the former could transform it into the latter. What's the degree here? That's what I'm asking. > That's a boring discussion. This is dismissive. If you want to discuss things in good faith, please avoid language like this. You're refusing to engage with an aspect of my reply - and that's fine - but don't pretend my thought are meaningless or boring as a response.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    Of course opinion != propaganda. What is propaganda is a CCP bot network on Twitter. I'm ending this convo here. It's become a tedious debate about semantics and nothing productive is being achieved.
    - nkozyra 4y ago
      You entered a conversation and started calling my points boring and meaningless; I don't sense you were looking for productive conversation from the get-go.