4 ms·

Yeah, sounds like a really great idea to handle business communication while being intoxicated... If you write 20 lines of BS code, it does not really matter.

by middus 15y ago

Yeah, sounds like a really great idea to handle business communication while being intoxicated... If you write 20 lines of BS code, it does not really matter. Thanks to your VCS you revert and finito. On the hand, one wrong email can haunt you, because it affects people. There is no undo.

tptacek 15y ago
Do you drink regularly? I don't know anyone who gets 2-3 drinks in them and becomes an entirely different person.
- bryanlarsen 15y ago
  I'm having trouble understanding your comments. The article doesn't talk about "entirely different people", we're talking about drunk people. No matter how drunk you are, you don't become an "entirely different person", but you lose the social inhibitions that prevent you from writing the types of emails that offend customers. And I'm not sure where 2-3 drinks comes from, either. 2-3 drinks get some people drunk, but not large people or regular drinkers. That's not really relevant, because even large people or regular drinkers start to lose those social inhibitions after 3 quick drinks even if they aren't yet 'drunk'.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    His comment makes sense in the context of middus's comment. You are highly unlikely to compose an email that "haunt you" unless you are quite drunk. You are still you, and you'll still act in line with how you normally act. Loosened inhibitions at low levels of alcohol are almost without exception quite voluntary. For most people who have drank before I'd say the line between 'good to go' and drunk comes at about 5 or so, but the number is in fact irrelevant. Just get a buzz, or maybe a little tipsy, and you'll be fine.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    I think the subtext of my comment was pretty straightforward: after 2-3 drinks, you're not going to send radically different emails to customers; you're certainly not likely to torch relationships. If anything, over the last several years, what I've found is that stress is far more likely to hurt relationships than intoxication. After a frustrating day, I'm way more likely to be clipped, snippy, abrupt, or unhelpful. That's the stuff that clients and customers remember. I drink pretty regularly and can't think of a single time that intoxication has harmed a business relationship (indeed, I routinely take clients out for beers, like most other businesspeople do --- if alcohol and "loss of inhibition" was such a force for chaos, one assumes this would be less of a time-honored tradition). On the other hand, I can think of many times where stress has damaged relationships, sometimes permanently. I picked 2-3 drinks out of a hat. I know the guy who wrote this post drank 4 glasses of gin before getting on a plane (I'd throw up if I did that; alcohol and air travel don't mix with me), but 2-3 seems like a pretty reasonable casual evening of answering emails.
    - bryanlarsen 15y ago
      OK then, I'll just disagree with you. People are surprisingly easy to offend over email. I know that I've offended some when sober. Sometimes it's because I'm too terse. Sometimes it's because they're reading something between the lines that I didn't mean to say. Sometimes I phrased things poorly. Sometimes I wrote it the email in anger. Add 2-3 drinks in the mix and I'd probably double the number of offended customers. Taking customers out for drinks is a completely different situation. It's a lot harder to be misunderstood in face-to-face conversations, not to mention that the customer is drinking along with you.
      - timsally 15y ago
        People are surprisingly easy to offend over email. I know that I've offended some when sober. Sometimes it's because I'm too terse. Sometimes it's because they're reading something between the lines that I didn't mean to say. Sometimes I phrased things poorly. Sometimes I wrote it the email in anger. It sounds like beer is accentuating (not causing) a problem with email etiquette. Your point and Thomas's point are orthogonal: (1) two beers can make you terrible at things you are already bad at and (2) two beers wont make you terrible at things you aren't bad at. Because the bottom line is that people aren't easy to offend over email. I've written 1 email that has offended someone in the last 5 years and that was mostly intentional.

by middus 15y ago

tptacek 15y ago

Do you drink regularly? I don't know anyone who gets 2-3 drinks in them and becomes an entirely different person.

bryanlarsen 15y ago
I'm having trouble understanding your comments. The article doesn't talk about "entirely different people", we're talking about drunk people. No matter how drunk you are, you don't become an "entirely different person", but you lose the social inhibitions that prevent you from writing the types of emails that offend customers. And I'm not sure where 2-3 drinks comes from, either. 2-3 drinks get some people drunk, but not large people or regular drinkers. That's not really relevant, because even large people or regular drinkers start to lose those social inhibitions after 3 quick drinks even if they aren't yet 'drunk'.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  His comment makes sense in the context of middus's comment. You are highly unlikely to compose an email that "haunt you" unless you are quite drunk. You are still you, and you'll still act in line with how you normally act. Loosened inhibitions at low levels of alcohol are almost without exception quite voluntary. For most people who have drank before I'd say the line between 'good to go' and drunk comes at about 5 or so, but the number is in fact irrelevant. Just get a buzz, or maybe a little tipsy, and you'll be fine.
- tptacek 15y ago
  I think the subtext of my comment was pretty straightforward: after 2-3 drinks, you're not going to send radically different emails to customers; you're certainly not likely to torch relationships. If anything, over the last several years, what I've found is that stress is far more likely to hurt relationships than intoxication. After a frustrating day, I'm way more likely to be clipped, snippy, abrupt, or unhelpful. That's the stuff that clients and customers remember. I drink pretty regularly and can't think of a single time that intoxication has harmed a business relationship (indeed, I routinely take clients out for beers, like most other businesspeople do --- if alcohol and "loss of inhibition" was such a force for chaos, one assumes this would be less of a time-honored tradition). On the other hand, I can think of many times where stress has damaged relationships, sometimes permanently. I picked 2-3 drinks out of a hat. I know the guy who wrote this post drank 4 glasses of gin before getting on a plane (I'd throw up if I did that; alcohol and air travel don't mix with me), but 2-3 seems like a pretty reasonable casual evening of answering emails.
  - bryanlarsen 15y ago
    OK then, I'll just disagree with you. People are surprisingly easy to offend over email. I know that I've offended some when sober. Sometimes it's because I'm too terse. Sometimes it's because they're reading something between the lines that I didn't mean to say. Sometimes I phrased things poorly. Sometimes I wrote it the email in anger. Add 2-3 drinks in the mix and I'd probably double the number of offended customers. Taking customers out for drinks is a completely different situation. It's a lot harder to be misunderstood in face-to-face conversations, not to mention that the customer is drinking along with you.
    - timsally 15y ago
      People are surprisingly easy to offend over email. I know that I've offended some when sober. Sometimes it's because I'm too terse. Sometimes it's because they're reading something between the lines that I didn't mean to say. Sometimes I phrased things poorly. Sometimes I wrote it the email in anger. It sounds like beer is accentuating (not causing) a problem with email etiquette. Your point and Thomas's point are orthogonal: (1) two beers can make you terrible at things you are already bad at and (2) two beers wont make you terrible at things you aren't bad at. Because the bottom line is that people aren't easy to offend over email. I've written 1 email that has offended someone in the last 5 years and that was mostly intentional.