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I think the 'was it worth it' has to be answered by the our community over the next 10-20 years. We made a choice, right or wrong, to sacrifice some of our chi

I think the 'was it worth it' has to be answered by the our community over the next 10-20 years. We made a choice, right or wrong, to sacrifice some of our children to save our elders. Culturally, this is not something we do. I wonder how this will be interpreted as more of these studies come to light and the children start to age and we can see the damage.

scarface74 4y ago
We didn’t “sacrifice our children”. At worse they may have a harder time catching up at the price of having older relatives around longer - who if nothing else often provides free health care so parents can go to work.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  This is such a privileged take. We stole proms, graduations, first dates, first days of school, friendships, relationships, social interaction, you name it… we stole it from our kids. Maybe rich tech workers had it easier or are living in denial but the fact is what we did to the young is completely disgusting and it is shameful how quick some people are to dismiss it. What we did to kids was state sponsored child abuse. We absolutely fucked over their one and only childhood for a disease whose median age of death is higher than the average life expectancy for a normal person. The number of young ones who got seriously ill from Covid is a drop in the bucket. Complete bollocks.
  - ttpphd 4y ago
    - spookthesunset 4y ago
      It’s amazing how this crap turned people into cruel monsters.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        And they are probably the same “pro life” “all lives matter” crowd.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So it’s a “privileged take” that it’s mostly poorer families who wouldn’t be able to afford child care and would depend on childcare from their now dead older relatives? Yes it’s more concerning that poor little Timmy couldn’t have his first kiss than granny actually ending up dead. If you haven’t prepared your children to handle a little inconvenience like not going to a prom, he’s certainly not going to be prepared for real life.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > This is such a privileged take. We stole proms 'Millions of dead' vs 'no prom'. As if prom means anything. As if it's some essential thing that was always a critical part of human life and children are considered "sacrificed" if they have to go without. Ridiculous. Talk about privilege! Sadly, things during the deadly global pandemic have been less than ideal. Nobody asked for the pandemic and nothing we did or could have done differently would have changed the fact that it was going to have an impact on children just as it has had an impact on all of us. You just can't have a deadly global pandemic and not disrupt people's lives somewhat. Ask any kid who lost a parent to covid if they'd rather have prom, a 'first days of school' immediately instead of later, or their loved one back. Imagine how many more parents (and children) would have been killed or suffer long term problems due to the virus if we'd done absolutely nothing like many seem to have wanted. I wonder which kids are going to grow up and think back to this time and feel more abused, the ones whose parents did everything they could to protect them in the middle of a pandemic or the ones whose parents told them not to wear a mask and wouldn't get them vaccinated and wanted to shove them back into schools no matter how many children and adults got sick.
morsch 4y ago
Society constantly trades off the well being of kids vs people that are older than kids. This is totally something we do. Funding for education vs funding for something else. Streets that are safe for kids vs ones that are convenient for driving fast. We're happily screwing over entire generations with our carbon based economy.
ttpphd 4y ago
No! No! No! We already know we made the right choice because the alternative was 20 million more dead. This "time will tell" bullshit is ridiculous. We swerved the car to avoid crashing it head on into a wall, and yes you might have whiplash but there is no honest room for second guessing the decision not to drive the car into the wall at full speed.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  Where do you get this “20 million more dead” figure from? Some model?
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  I'm sorry but that is not how science works. We will be studying this for years and changing healthcare policies as a result of this. Its not "second guessing bullshit" its looking at what happened, the results of it, and changing our future actions accordingly. There is an entire branch of study - one which I work in - whose entire job is to run either observational studies or post-hoc studies using real world data to find out if something had an impact, a positive impact, negative impact, and what the likelyhood of your own study being correct is. If you think this is 'done' and we shouldn't revisit this to see what we did well / did poorly then that is as anti-science as they come.
  - ttpphd 4y ago
    This is a non response because you are not considering the counterfactual properly. How will future studies factor in the millions of lives saved?
    - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
      With all due respect, further tests, research, and outcome analysis on the people impacted by our choices will be how we understand our response and what we should have done differently. You are lumping every response to the pandemic together and appear to be saying "you can't judge this, would you rather millions have died??" - well no, but thats not the question either. Instead "We did things to respond to the pandemic, some good some bad. What was good and what was bad." This will happen. Saying "NO NO NO" is not going to stop that or help it.

scarface74 4y ago

We didn’t “sacrifice our children”. At worse they may have a harder time catching up at the price of having older relatives around longer - who if nothing else often provides free health care so parents can go to work.

spookthesunset 4y ago
This is such a privileged take. We stole proms, graduations, first dates, first days of school, friendships, relationships, social interaction, you name it… we stole it from our kids. Maybe rich tech workers had it easier or are living in denial but the fact is what we did to the young is completely disgusting and it is shameful how quick some people are to dismiss it. What we did to kids was state sponsored child abuse. We absolutely fucked over their one and only childhood for a disease whose median age of death is higher than the average life expectancy for a normal person. The number of young ones who got seriously ill from Covid is a drop in the bucket. Complete bollocks.
- ttpphd 4y ago
  - spookthesunset 4y ago
    It’s amazing how this crap turned people into cruel monsters.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      And they are probably the same “pro life” “all lives matter” crowd.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So it’s a “privileged take” that it’s mostly poorer families who wouldn’t be able to afford child care and would depend on childcare from their now dead older relatives? Yes it’s more concerning that poor little Timmy couldn’t have his first kiss than granny actually ending up dead. If you haven’t prepared your children to handle a little inconvenience like not going to a prom, he’s certainly not going to be prepared for real life.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > This is such a privileged take. We stole proms 'Millions of dead' vs 'no prom'. As if prom means anything. As if it's some essential thing that was always a critical part of human life and children are considered "sacrificed" if they have to go without. Ridiculous. Talk about privilege! Sadly, things during the deadly global pandemic have been less than ideal. Nobody asked for the pandemic and nothing we did or could have done differently would have changed the fact that it was going to have an impact on children just as it has had an impact on all of us. You just can't have a deadly global pandemic and not disrupt people's lives somewhat. Ask any kid who lost a parent to covid if they'd rather have prom, a 'first days of school' immediately instead of later, or their loved one back. Imagine how many more parents (and children) would have been killed or suffer long term problems due to the virus if we'd done absolutely nothing like many seem to have wanted. I wonder which kids are going to grow up and think back to this time and feel more abused, the ones whose parents did everything they could to protect them in the middle of a pandemic or the ones whose parents told them not to wear a mask and wouldn't get them vaccinated and wanted to shove them back into schools no matter how many children and adults got sick.

morsch 4y ago

Society constantly trades off the well being of kids vs people that are older than kids. This is totally something we do. Funding for education vs funding for something else. Streets that are safe for kids vs ones that are convenient for driving fast. We're happily screwing over entire generations with our carbon based economy.

ttpphd 4y ago

No! No! No! We already know we made the right choice because the alternative was 20 million more dead. This "time will tell" bullshit is ridiculous. We swerved the car to avoid crashing it head on into a wall, and yes you might have whiplash but there is no honest room for second guessing the decision not to drive the car into the wall at full speed.

spookthesunset 4y ago
Where do you get this “20 million more dead” figure from? Some model?
OrangeMonkey 4y ago
I'm sorry but that is not how science works. We will be studying this for years and changing healthcare policies as a result of this. Its not "second guessing bullshit" its looking at what happened, the results of it, and changing our future actions accordingly. There is an entire branch of study - one which I work in - whose entire job is to run either observational studies or post-hoc studies using real world data to find out if something had an impact, a positive impact, negative impact, and what the likelyhood of your own study being correct is. If you think this is 'done' and we shouldn't revisit this to see what we did well / did poorly then that is as anti-science as they come.
- ttpphd 4y ago
  This is a non response because you are not considering the counterfactual properly. How will future studies factor in the millions of lives saved?
  - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
    With all due respect, further tests, research, and outcome analysis on the people impacted by our choices will be how we understand our response and what we should have done differently. You are lumping every response to the pandemic together and appear to be saying "you can't judge this, would you rather millions have died??" - well no, but thats not the question either. Instead "We did things to respond to the pandemic, some good some bad. What was good and what was bad." This will happen. Saying "NO NO NO" is not going to stop that or help it.